craig 5,199 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 1 hour ago, JFK-1 said: I already said that's diplomacy and is standard in such situations. It doesn't indicate support. Was Chamberlain supporting Hitler when he entered into dialogue with him? Of course not it was simply standard diplomacy. So how do you possibly work out that a picture is diplomacy on the one hand but is support on another. They are pictures in all cases. You are clearly making subjective opinions based on what your preferred outcome is. Despite Ozil saying his appearance wasn’t a show of support you choose to believe him, The Queen and Theresa May never said either way whether it was support but you attached “diplomacy” as the cover-all tagline. Must be great being a politician or sovereign as you can hide behind “diplomacy” and even in silence you will be given the benefit of the doubt - but everyone else will be judged based on what our preferred outcomes are. Comes across as hypocrisy to me. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonzo79 13,741 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Heads of states have to be diplomatic to some extent. If they didn't meet other heads of state from time to time international relations would be (negatively) affected. Ozil is a citizen and doesn't represent anyone. It's up to him if he wants to go and meet the Turkish president. It's not up to the Queen or Theresa May whether they do it, they are obliged to do so. I suspect, like the Chechen President did with Mo Salah at the WC, Erdogan was just looking for good publicity and got it and Ozil has to deal with the backlash because Germany were hugely disappointing. If they had done well, we'd probably have heard nothing more of it. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFK-1 1,675 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 1 hour ago, craig said: So how do you possibly work out that a picture is diplomacy on the one hand but is support on another. They are pictures in all cases. You are clearly making subjective opinions based on what your preferred outcome is. Despite Ozil saying his appearance wasn’t a show of support you choose to believe him, The Queen and Theresa May never said either way whether it was support but you attached “diplomacy” as the cover-all tagline. Must be great being a politician or sovereign as you can hide behind “diplomacy” and even in silence you will be given the benefit of the doubt - but everyone else will be judged based on what our preferred outcomes are. Comes across as hypocrisy to me. Well I think Gonzo pretty much just covered my reply. Theresa May etc are obliged to receive and meet with foreign heads of state. Private citizens are not. I wouldn't have a photograph taken with any politician I had issues with simply because they were British or Scottish or any other nationality for that matter. I'm in the US and I wouldn't be photographed with Trump if the opportunity arose. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
der Berliner 3,279 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 Should Gedion Zelalem decides to play for Germany, does so and then meets Donald Trump next week, the fallout in Germany would be much the same. BTW, his parents are Ethopian and he got the Ethopian, German (land of birth) and US citizenship (parents went there in 2006) ... https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/gedion-zelalem/profil/spieler/228370 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darthter 542 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 Worth noting that people like Ozil are not just normal people....they are internationally recognised sportsmen, in many cases verging on celebrity status. They also have various commitments that they HAVE to comply with for sponsors etc. In this instance, did Ozil make a point of going to meet with Erdogan, or did they happen to meet at the same function??? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,199 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 17 hours ago, JFK-1 said: Well I think Gonzo pretty much just covered my reply. Theresa May etc are obliged to receive and meet with foreign heads of state. Private citizens are not. I wouldn't have a photograph taken with any politician I had issues with simply because they were British or Scottish or any other nationality for that matter. I'm in the US and I wouldn't be photographed with Trump if the opportunity arose. The first paragraph is a red herring though. Whilst it is accurate, you are attaching your own personal belief in both instances to support what you want to support. Yes, it is diplomacy. But there is nothing from May or the Queen suggesting support of Erdogan.... but likewise there is nothing from them making condemnation of him either. Yet in Ozil's situation you have attributed him as being supportive of Erdogan based on nothing more than him being a private citizen. Not only that, but even when he explains himself you decide that his explanation doesn't fit in with how you wish to view his meeting with Erdogan. If you can't see the hypocrisy in that then I can't help you. Your second paragraph is a personal choice which is yours to make. Doesn't mean that everyone has to follow your course of action. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,199 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 5 hours ago, der Berliner said: Should Gedion Zelalem decides to play for Germany, does so and then meets Donald Trump next week, the fallout in Germany would be much the same. BTW, his parents are Ethopian and he got the Ethopian, German (land of birth) and US citizenship (parents went there in 2006) ... https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/gedion-zelalem/profil/spieler/228370 I highly doubt that the fallout from Zelalem would be the same as it has been for Ozil. That is a massive stretch IMO. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
der Berliner 3,279 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 3 hours ago, craig said: I highly doubt that the fallout from Zelalem would be the same as it has been for Ozil. That is a massive stretch IMO. Don't think so. IMHO it was quite calculated that he drew the racism card ... 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonzo79 13,741 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 I see Erdogan and the Turkish FA have come out in support of Ozil. This could grow arms and legs. As an aside, I'd have my pic taken with Melania Trump or Macron's missus, if they're available. ? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7 5,229 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 Do you not think both Mrs Trump and Mme Macron have an extra-terrestrial look about them? Tear off the plastic face masks and there are reptilian aliens underneath. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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