reflections on we fans, over hutton

[andy steel 0]

one of our promising players has signed for spurs. they offered a deal worth around 7-8m, and the player stands to become a fantastically wealthy young man.

 

those are the things we can say with some certainty.

 

here are some things we can put down as rumour, gossip and innuendo:

 

he didn't want to leave as he wanted a medal before he left

his gf wanted to stay in scotland as she is pregnant

he was forced out the door at ibrox

villanous, moustachioed and evil, david murray doesn't care about the fans

rangers are only interested in money, not cups

 

 

oh, and here's one other thing we can say with 100% conviction:

 

the fans calling the radio shows and the papers have done more to damage rangers this season than all the decisions taken by insane, top hatted victorian stage baddie david murray.

 

here's the reality. we have got a fantastic, quite frankly amazing price for a player who has had a good 12 months. not even 12 months! not only that, a player whose position can be filled by players of equal ability for a lot less cash. it just so happens that we may well have one already in steven whittaker, however it seems already that some have made up their minds that he's crap...just like hutton was, as well. at any rate, we won't have to play anyone out of position at RB, like a certain team also based in glasgow...who have decided that despite having a dodgy keeper, a makeshift, over physical, lumbering defence, plus a midfield that has been posted missing for the last 2 months, they need extra cover up front and have signed samaras. are we weakened and 'they' strengthened? only if you fear robson...i doubt that includes many of us.

 

throwing away the league by selling hutton? catch a grip of yourselves!

 

if AH comes out and says psychotic, cape wearing ne'er do well david murray tied him to the railway lines and drove a locomotive at him, threatening to run him over unless he signed for spurs while at the same time leering in a menacing fashion at his expectant girlfriend, all the while doing a laugh like the hooded claw, then i'll agree that he was harshly treated and that murray, last seen running off with a large sack marked 'swag' over his shoulder, is guilty as charged, and is attempting to run rangers into the ground. plainly, in his unhinged mind, this is the best way to make the club attractive to a new buyer. until that day comes, though, i shall continue to see this as excellent business for rangers and that those who have chosen to play into the hands of the media are the ones hurting the club.

[Wija 0]

For the last time will someone ban SDM from this site.... he always comes on here and talks total sense..

 

MY ARSE!

 

Alan Hutton stated that he wanted to stay - that is fact. Alan Hutton was then again told that Rangers were willing to let him go as the money was too good to knock back (this being after he had stated he wanted to stay) -that is fact.

 

Why stay at a club when SDM and Bain were in the shadows pushing him out the door. Hands were tied, and WS and AMc could do fook all. Alan Hutton has done himself no harm in the way he dealt with it. He spoke once, to say he wanted to stay. No one from Rangers spoke to say OK, we want you to stay and the door is closed.

 

The only thing harming this club is the silence from the Board room and the senior figures within its walls.

[johnnyk 158]

The way he was treated was a disgrace IMO.

 

Rangers got a great fee for him no doubt but the boy wanted to stay and said so, surely that's allowed? Them in charge made it clear they did not want him to stay no matter how much he did.

[elderslieblue 0]

Rangers received an offer and accepted. They then spoke to Hutton who said he wanted to stay. Hutton went down to speak to Spurs TWICE. He [and Rangers ] received improved offers. Hutton moved.

 

Those are the only FACTS known.

 

Hutton has since said he is happy to move to Spurs [what else was he gonny say ?] and that 'It was every young Scottish football players dream to play in the E.P.L."

 

Hee-haw else is "known".

 

There are a lot of Bears out there unhappy with Murray. I'm one of them and I doubt we'll see a brown cent of Huttons transfer money going towards improving the team.

 

But anybody posting on this or any other forum that "Hutton was forced out- FACT" is talking through their @rse.

 

I've been in several debates about this subject on here and elsewhere. I'll repeat...............show us 'the facts' or shut up.

[bmck 117]

one of our promising players has signed for spurs. they offered a deal worth around 7-8m, and the player stands to become a fantastically wealthy young man.

 

those are the things we can say with some certainty.

 

actually those are some of the things that can be said with certainty. we can also say for certain that he knocked spurs back and was quite content to play to the end of the season at rangers.

 

here are some things we can put down as rumour, gossip and innuendo:

 

what absolute nonsense. these things are speculation - you know, the natural part of the human imagination that tries to fill in the blanks when the facts are dispirate, unclear, or contradictory. its that same part of the brain you engage when you can distinguish between The Truth being exactly the same as the concrete facts you know, and The Truth being a slightly deeper affair than merely what you have been told.

 

that these things cant be proven/disproven just means that for some unknown reason they havent been asked. they may be rumour, they me be gossip, they may be innuendo - but they also may be true, relevant and worth our consideration. you dont know until you find out: to dismiss anything beyond blind repetition of available facts as gossip (with all its negative connotations) when all is not known is just idiotic. and to do it so condescendingly makes it all the more ironic - im not sure it is wise to look down on speculators who are speculating out of some dis-satisfaction with the situation, and portray your own ignorance, and contentment with ignorance, as some sort of pedestal to look down from.

 

 

oh, and here's one other thing we can say with 100% conviction:

 

the fans calling the radio shows and the papers have done more to damage rangers this season than all the decisions taken by insane, top hatted victorian stage baddie david murray.

 

and how exactly are you feeling about your taking your "half our supporters are actually dicks who cant distinguish between hitler & murray" stereotypes around the internet? infact, by the gross horrorshow that forms the logic of your argument anyone who has any dis-satisfaction with these proceedings is actually stupid enough to think murray is some stage baddie. anyone who doesnt accept things exactly as they are is clearly some misinformed troublemaker, it would seem. im sorry, but its this fascistically conservative philosophy thats doing the harm to our club, not a few morons on radio programs no-one in their right mind would listen to.

 

here's the reality. we have got a fantastic, quite frankly amazing price for a player who has had a good 12 months......

 

its really amazing how "the reality" of the situation sounds so darned like your opinion of the situation. "this is a good price" is a statement of value, not of measurable fact ffs.

 

im sorry, but this is the same old pish. ive heard far too much of this Any Supporter Who Isnae Like Me is Stupid/Ill-informed/Backwards/Hurter of the Club. you would do far better just getting on with supporting the club than calling sections of it morons (in such a flawed way to boot). there are bigger problems.

[calscot 0]

In an age where players think of themselves and money way before loyalty, I really have to doubt that Hutton was a die hard Rangers fan who didn't want to leave. He may not have wanted to leave but that was because it didn't suit him at the time, and if rumours are to be believed it's because he thought Man Utd would bid for him in the summer.

 

Whatever the reasons, I'd be pretty confident that they were in his own self- interest and nobody else's.

 

By delaying things he's upped his wage by about 650k a year and if rumours are again true he's also received a 1M golden handshake. I don't think he has much to complain about except that his only suitor was not as big or "winning" club as he'd like. I'm sure he'd prefer a team that regularly play in the CL and challenge for the league.

 

When you consider that none of these teams put in a bid and that he has been compensated with earnings beyond my personal wildest dreams, I will not shed much of a tear for his so called poor treatment.

 

SDM has his faults and has been lambasted for not selling players for millions when he could and then getting nothing. A case in point is Laudrup where he turned down 5M for him to play one more season due to the fans love for him.

 

Laudrup played poorly that season and we lost the league. Murray admitted it was a huge mistake that he wouldn't repeat and most of us agreed that we should learn from it.

 

Well, here is the application of that lesson and the sooner we decide whether we want to spend ourselves into debt or be actually astute with our money, the better.

 

Make up your minds guys.

[calscot 0]

PS I always said we were doing the wrong thing lately - buying high and selling low, now we're buying low and selling high, it seems like we might be financially stable from now on.

[andy steel 0]

i've yet to see any of the 'hutton says he wants to stay' stuff. as i posted on another forum, if someone can hook me up to AH coming out with that i will stand corrected.

 

what absolute nonsense. these things are speculation

if you want to call it speculation, go ahead. gossip, innuendo, etc...mere semantics and not even worth arguing about.

 

to dismiss anything beyond blind repetition of available facts as gossip (with all its negative connotations) when all is not known is just idiotic. and to do it so condescendingly makes it all the more ironic - im not sure it is wise to look down on speculators who are speculating out of some dis-satisfaction with the situation, and portray your own ignorance, and contentment with ignorance, as some sort of pedestal to look down from.

 

you can put me on an imaginary pedstal if you like. you can also attribute characteristics to me all you want. i'm not going to get involved in childish personal name calling, if that's what goes on here you'll be glad to know i shall stick to RM.

 

and how exactly are you feeling about your taking your "half our supporters are actually dicks who cant distinguish between hitler & murray" stereotypes around the internet? infact, by the gross horrorshow that forms the logic of your argument anyone who has any dis-satisfaction with these proceedings is actually stupid enough to think murray is some stage baddie. anyone who doesnt accept things exactly as they are is clearly some misinformed troublemaker, it would seem. im sorry, but its this fascistically conservative philosophy thats doing the harm to our club, not a few morons on radio programs no-one in their right mind would listen to.

 

finally some substance.

where do you get 'half our fans' from? if you think all rangers fans are members of mensa you are plainly following a different glasgow rangers than i am, but i don't recall quantifying the amount. the people i was targeting are those who play the media game and phone up radio stations, and papers, with the 'it's a disgrace, we are a laughing stock, murray gtf' routine. i'm happy to stand by my opinion of such people as morons, and also my opinion that they are harming the club. i don't recall advocating Kz lagers for them, mind you.

[bmck 117]

i've yet to see any of the 'hutton says he wants to stay' stuff. as i posted on another forum, if someone can hook me up to AH coming out with that i will stand corrected.

 

you implicitly say you want to stay when you knock back an offer to leave.

 

if you want to call it speculation, go ahead. gossip, innuendo, etc...mere semantics and not even worth arguing about.

 

if you think they all mean the same thing then there's nothing more i can say. i just hope those scientists stop gossiping over new ways to cure cancer & dont dare to imagine beyond the facts they already have or they might actually cure us.

 

you can put me on an imaginary pedstal if you like. you can also attribute characteristics to me all you want. i'm not going to get involved in childish personal name calling, if that's what goes on here you'll be glad to know i shall stick to RM.

 

it seemed to me your assessment of the situation was of a "everybody this is the facts, come listen to me" variety. but if you dont think it was a soap box sort of an argument, thats fine. if you want to further imagine insults into my criticism of your argument, then thats fine too.

 

 

finally some substance.

where do you get 'half our fans' from? if you think all rangers fans are members of mensa you are plainly following a different glasgow rangers than i am, but i don't recall quantifying the amount. the people i was targeting are those who play the media game and phone up radio stations, and papers, with the 'it's a disgrace, we are a laughing stock, murray gtf' routine. i'm happy to stand by my opinion of such people as morons, and also my opinion that they are harming the club. i don't recall advocating Kz lagers for them, mind you.

 

well you clearly think its enough fans to start preaching about it. but my problem was this, perhaps i could have stated it in a more friendly way, it seemed as if you were looping all these different groups people (those unhappy with the transfer, those who didn't believe your version of the facts, those who think murray is some sort of evil character, or even those who question him, and those who phone in the phone ins) as essentially fundamentally the same sort of people: united by one common characteristic, their stupidity.

 

let me explain why. for a start anyone who held any of your five stated clear falsehoods were immediately gossips & rumour mongers. but i dont think its obvious rangers board arent only interested in money, and i dont think its obvious that david murray cares about the fans. i certainly have no interest in hutton's personal life, but i dont its in the realm of the ridiculously fanciful to think a professional footballer might be interested in winning medals. so on at least part of the five, you've expressed my view, and youhave called it gossip. but its not.

 

then you went onto claim that these nutty fans you've happened to hear on the radio have done more to harm the club than david murray. or rather big baddy david murray. it seems to suggest that its absolutely bewildering to you that someone might suggest david murray done more harm than these people. to me its not so bewildering - certainly not laughably so.

 

then you portrayed your opinion on the value of the signing as fact - forcing everyone who disagrees with you into the world of non-facts. but i dont think it represents good value.

 

i actually think there is at least a possibility that selling hutton could be detrimental to our season, but you've made up your mind that folk of this sort should "catch a grip of themselves".

 

the last paragraph implies that anybody who thinks this wasnt a good deal has some desperately malign view of murray, and are some sort of nutjobs.

maybe you have a different audience in mind, but you posted it here. a lot of things rangers fans here and elsewhre take to be at least worth considering are ridiculed in it. you've felt confident & bold enough to satire quite a lot of ideas, so i hope you take some criticism of it as given.

 

these are interesting times, for every rabidly irrational murray hater there's a pro-murray counterpart, it seems. in a nutshell, i just find your general idea that it is playing into the media's hand to speculate beyond the facts presented in the media bankrupt. to not play into the media's hands seems suspiciously like believing the facts as presented in the media.

 

either way, i like it when people are willing to write something and make a stance one way or t'other. i'll be honest, i found your post excessively condescending towards those who didnt share your views on the whole issue (of which I, and many other more sensible people are included), and it dictated the tone of my response. maybe i've misread, maybe not. either way, its all in good fun. :cheers:

[Super_Ally 0]

Andy whilst some of your points may have merit, it would have been better to put them in a less patronising and idiotic manner.

 

You appear to be clearly swept along by Murray propaganda, but it is unnecessary and unlikely conducive to intelligent debate to litter you're post with stereotyping of fellow fans and sarcasm.

 

Elderslie and Calscot seem to come to some similar idea as yourself without insulting those who disagree.