maineflyer 0 Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 le guen desperatly wanted to sort out the team , it would have taken a strong chairman to back him, murray bottled it , ferguson won we are where we are because murray is drinking at the last chance saloon . why people cannot accept that the past 20 years have been wasted is beyong me , murray took over when the stadium was rebuilt , the club had money in the bank , a great manager , the england team captain and a purpose . The english were banned from europe and sky tv was not even a distant thought .A few years later they had celtic within 24 hours of going bust , and players of the standard of laudrup and gazza , then the wheels came off the bogey ,murray personally offered salaries way above what was being asked , in some cases agents were not even asking for specific deals they waited on murrays offer ( this I know for a fact ), and we paid the price ,we have been on a downwards spiral ever since whilst our biggest rivals get stronger and stronger , in fact but for two last day wins they would be on course for 7 or 8 in a row , yet some still think murray has done a great job , like i said earlier 20 years and no further forward and not 1 penny of his own money invested in Rangers You're going to seriously challenge some of the spineless ones with stuff like that. I mean, you just come right out with the truth to people who have spent their formative years swallowing lie after lie from the Great Guardian. There will be a few having nightmares if you keep that up. Some folks can't handle anything as potent as the truth. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedell 5,329 Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 How do you know that PLG was offered more money ? Has that been confirmed anywhere ? Murray has said it. He was letting people know that PLG didn't want to buy anyone prior to the whole Fergie thing kicking off. His version of events seems to stack up, but.... 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedell 5,329 Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 le guen desperatly wanted to sort out the team , it would have taken a strong chairman to back him, murray bottled it , ferguson won we are where we are because murray is drinking at the last chance saloon . why people cannot accept that the past 20 years have been wasted is beyong me , murray took over when the stadium was rebuilt , the club had money in the bank , a great manager , the england team captain and a purpose . The english were banned from europe and sky tv was not even a distant thought .A few years later they had celtic within 24 hours of going bust , and players of the standard of laudrup and gazza , then the wheels came off the bogey ,murray personally offered salaries way above what was being asked , in some cases agents were not even asking for specific deals they waited on murrays offer ( this I know for a fact ), and we paid the price ,we have been on a downwards spiral ever since whilst our biggest rivals get stronger and stronger , in fact but for two last day wins they would be on course for 7 or 8 in a row , yet some still think murray has done a great job , like i said earlier 20 years and no further forward and not 1 penny of his own money invested in Rangers I'm sure a lot of what you have said is right, but he's put in �£60m to the club. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maineflyer 0 Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 I'm sure a lot of what you have said is right, but he's put in �£60m to the club. No he hasn't - not a penny that I'm aware of. What money are you talking about? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedell 5,329 Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 No he hasn't - not a penny that I'm aware of. What money are you talking about? �£10m at the King rights issue and �£50m at the last rights issue. You can be pedantic and say it came from his company, but it's the same thing as far we are concerned. It's just the vehicle that he used to get the cash in. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maineflyer 0 Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 �£10m at the King rights issue and �£50m at the last rights issue. You can be pedantic and say it came from his company, but it's the same thing as far we are concerned. It's just the vehicle that he used to get the cash in. No, the point is that he got Rangers shares in return for that money and when he (God willing) sells those shares, he will get all of that money back - so he has put none of that money into the club. What he did was transfer debt. The club received nothing from David Murray, you really need to understand this. Anything that Murray has done for this club has cost him not one penny. And when he sells, all of the value will go into his (company's)pocket. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedell 5,329 Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 No, the point is that he got Rangers shares in return for that money and when he (God willing) sells those shares, he will get all of that money back - so he has put none of that money into the club. What he did was transfer debt. The club received nothing from David Murray, you really need to understand this. Anything that Murray has done for this club has cost him not one penny. And when he sells, all of the value will go into his (company's)pocket. No, the point is that his money went into the club, which you said didn't happen. It did. Whether or not he gets the cash back is irrelevant to whether he put the cash in, and is a different subject. What happens in the future doesn't take away from the fact that the club received money from him. I doubt that he will get �£1 per share when he sells so I don't know how you can say he will get all of it back. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maineflyer 0 Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 No, the point is that his money went into the club, which you said didn't happen. It did. Whether or not he gets the cash back is irrelevant to whether he put the cash in, and is a different subject. What happens in the future doesn't take away from the fact that the club received money from him. I doubt that he will get �£1 per share when he sells so I don't know how you can say he will get all of it back. No, you still don't get it. No money went into the club. What happened was that debt went out of the club. The only way that the removal of debt could be used by the club is if it made it possible to go out again and borrow from the banks, which would have been ludicrous. The debt still exists, it just exists elsewhere. This transfer of debt had nothing whatsoever to do with funding the club and the club benefited from it not one iota. It was about addressing previous mistakes that Murray had made, not about putting anything into the club. That debt was simply exchanged for shares. Either way, the club had nothing to show for it that cpould be used to buy players or even a pot of paint for the scabby parts of the stadium. It is a complete fallacy that Murray has put any money into Rangers. What he did was to manipulate debt in order to increase his shareholding in the club - a shareholding that has value - value that now desides in Murray's business empire rather than in the club or its other shareholders. What is it about this that you cannot get your head round? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CammyF 6,779 Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 I am not getting involved in this debate (most know my feelings and stance on SDM), but have to say, the whole topic makes very interesting reading! Cammy F 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UCF2008 0 Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 One thing I've been thinking about. Let's say someone else had come in and bought that �£50m worth of shares. Exactly what sort of shareholding would that have represented? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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