Improving Rangers - Setting the Standard

[Big Spliff 0]

lads (& lauren!), to call on a bit of group solidarity, if everyone reading this thread (who can) could just click the link, even just to click and close and read it here. it'll substantially improve the circulation by moving it up the newsnow ratings, and so everyone benefits. many thanks!

 

Hi mate,

 

I clicked and it took me to the gersnet main site. I went to newsnow on my own but can't see it listed. These sites are both new to me, am i missing anything? or can you explain how they work/link in to newsnow please?

 

thanko mucho

[Super_Ally 0]

Hi mate,

 

I clicked and it took me to the gersnet main site. I went to newsnow on my own but can't see it listed. These sites are both new to me, am i missing anything? or can you explain how they work/link in to newsnow please?

 

thanko mucho

 

Did you use the side bar to go to sport>football>SPL>Rangers. I found it listed there.

[Big Spliff 0]

Did you use the side bar to go to sport>football>SPL>Rangers. I found it listed there.

 

gotcha, thanks

[Zappa 0]

Nevertheless, over the last week since the campaign was launched by the RST, much debate has been had surrounding the principle and the reasons behind it. Indeed, a cursory look at their statement doesn’t show much one can argue about.

Actually, there's one or two points that I don't really understand, or should I say, don't really see why they should be there. I'll outline them:-

 

- Only 2 league titles in 8 seasons

We've won 13 league titles in the last 20 seasons.

 

- Only 2 cups won in last 3 full seasons

We've won 19 cups in the last 20 seasons.

 

- Losing to the worst European opponents faced since Valletta in 1983

All football teams have good days & bad days. Unfortunately, that day we had a bad day & they had a good one. Does nobody remember Scotland beating France in Paris? Despite the much debated team selection against Kaunas, the team that started in the second leg should have been able to beat them easily. They didn't. End of story.

 

- A state of the art training facility, yet no advancements in technique or set plays

This point is so difficult, if not impossible to debate that it renders itself pointless. The training facility is producing very promising talent & even the much touted young Spaniard Aaron has said he very much enjoys training there with the 1st team.

 

- No discernible strategic vision, either on or off the pitch

I'd like to see the RST's idea of a 'discernible strategic vision'.

 

- No long-term transfer or team-building plan

It was widely known that with PLG we were getting a long-term transfer & team-building plan & that the process would take time, yet he wasn't given enough time or trust simply because going 17 points behind Celtic by January was deemed as unacceptable. His era lasted 6 months.

 

- Only two youth players (McGregor and Hutton) of genuine quality produced in the last decade

This point is complete nonsense. Our U19's have proven themselves to be the best in the country over the past couple of seasons. Obviously the RST have never heard of Lennon, Fleck, Smith, Emslie, Ness, Wylde, McMillan or Campbell (hope I haven't missed too many here).

 

- Selling first team players to cover losses previously made on fringe players

I haven't seen too much evidence of this in recent years, but nonetheless, football clubs constantly sell players either to bring in new ones or to bring in money when it's needed.

 

- Consistent failure to move fringe players on for reasonable transfer fees

High quality 1st team SPL players transfer for a fraction of what we see similar quality players transferring for in the EPL, so it's of no surprise at all that SPL fringe players fetch very little if anything at all in the transfer market. If we get any reasonable return on fringe players it should be considered as a bonus especially when other SPL clubs can't afford the wages that the players are on at Rangers.

 

- Failure to profit from our most lucrative ever season

I dispute this point as well. It should probably have read more like - 'Failure to be prudent with the profits from our most lucrative ever season & reduce the club's debt'

 

- Failure to engage with or interact with the support in any meaningful way

It could be argued that this is not solely the club's fault, but also the fault of the likes of the RST, given that RST members claim the exact same thing with regards to the actions of the RST. Maybe it's time the RST concentrated on speaking to the support & the club on behalf of the support, before running to the press to have their voice heard.

 

- Inability to either attract inward investment, or to convince fans to invest in any meaningful way

This point is a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black.

 

- Reduction in the status of our club from leading football force in the land, to almost social pariah status through a failure to challenge those seeking to link Rangers with sectarianism

The club are really up against it on this point. They've been up against a powerful politically & religiously backed campaign to smear the Rangers fans & the club. The fact they can't be seen by governing bodies to be condoning any sectarianism, puts them in an extremely difficult position. They can't possibly get into petty arguments about who does what & who says what on either side of the old firm.

 

- A PR operation which only acts when senior club figures are personally criticised and all too often fails to defend the Rangers support

I wouldn't disagree with either of these points, but the way it's worded is moronic. The 2 points worded together in that way are contradictory. Why anyone would defend those who are criticizing them defies any sense of logic. As I said, it's poorly worded.

 

- Fan morale lower than at any time in the past 24 years

Can't say I agree with that point either. Maybe for some fans, but not for all fans & to be blunt, I think the spreading of doom & gloom via modern technology dictates that we're our own worst enemy regarding morale.

 

 

In short, I have issues with practically every single point that the RST made in this statement. I also have a major issue with the fact that they released it all without direct consultation with Rangers fans as a whole via a mass survey conducted outside Ibrox on match days, otherwise there's absolutely no foundation for parroting on about how things can be done 'better' & fan morale being so low.

 

Mark

[Frankie 8,190]

Some excellent feedback so far. We have around 8 people writing articles so far...

 

Now also have these further articles planned to debate:

 

6. Our transfer strategy and why it isn't working. How can this be addressed?

 

7. The importance of a major scouting system and how this could be implemented.

 

8. On the field tactics. Can Walter really take us forward?

 

9. Supporter Unity - Respect and solidarity are required for any campaign to work.

 

Keep them coming folks..

[Frankie 8,190]

Shroomz:

 

You make some valid and some not so valid points above.

 

I won't take the time to answer them now as they should be covered within each article. If not, please make the point again and we can have a proper discussion then.

 

[Zappa 0]

Shroomz:

 

You make some valid and some not so valid points above.

 

I won't take the time to answer them now as they should be covered within each article. If not, please make the point again and we can have a proper discussion then.

 

 

No problem Frankie. I actually wasn't trying to steer your topic into a debate over the individual points made by the RST anyway, so apologies if I maybe went a bit OTT. I was basically trying to highlight in no uncertain terms that not everyone agrees with the points made by the RST or even the fact that they made the points public at all before conducting a credible survey of fans attending Ibrox.

[Frankie 8,190]

And that's a fair point mate.

 

Why not look to expand upon what you've already written and offer an article which disagrees with not only the RST statement but with my post that states the club has to do more....?

 

It would be interesting to have an opposing viewpoint as part of the project.

 

[Zappa 0]

Why not look to expand upon what you've already written and offer an article which disagrees with not only the RST statement but with my post that states the club has to do more....?

I wasn't disagreeing with your article in general Frankie, only the part that suggested that the RST's points couldn't really be argued. TBH, some of their points would have had more validity if worded differently & others would've had more validity if backed by a proper census or survey. As it was though... IMO, they released a sloppy statement on behalf of Rangers fans without their permission, that lacked in credibility, accuracy, fairness & worthiness.

 

At the risk of becoming the writer of the most disliked first article from someone on gersnet I'll consider writing something up, but don't count on me until I give it some more thought. The recoil is worrying, but that doesn't usually deter me from speaking my mind. :devil:

 

It would be interesting to have an opposing viewpoint as part of the project.

Yes, it would!!

[Bluedell 5,366]

Actually, there's one or two points that I don't really understand, or should I say, don't really see why they should be there. I'll outline them:-

 

 

We've won 13 league titles in the last 20 seasons.

Less relevant than the RST's point.

 

We've won 19 cups in the last 20 seasons.

Less relevant than the RST's point.

 

All football teams have good days & bad days. Unfortunately, that day we had a bad day & they had a good one. Does nobody remember Scotland beating France in Paris? Despite the much debated team selection against Kaunas, the team that started in the second leg should have been able to beat them easily. They didn't. End of story.

You think that a midfield with Dailly, McCulloch and Adam should be beating anyone? Sorry, disagree. Smith knew he had problems in the centre midfield but but the wrong players prior to the game.

 

This point is so difficult, if not impossible to debate that it renders itself pointless. The training facility is producing very promising talent & even the much touted young Spaniard Aaron has said he very much enjoys training there with the 1st team.

Free kicks seem to consist of Boyd hitting the ball straight into the wall. how many corners have you seen taken that don't get past the first defender? Surely basic stuff. That sort of thing should be worked out in training.

 

I'd like to see the RST's idea of a 'discernible strategic vision'.

So the support can't criticise unless they have all the answers? The RST have given plenty of advice in the past (their 15 point plan , for example) much of which has been ignored.

 

At the end of the day, the strategic plan is the responsbility of Bain and Murray. That's what they get paid for. They have failed by apparently not having one.

 

It was widely known that with PLG we were getting a long-term transfer & team-building plan & that the process would take time, yet he wasn't given enough time or trust simply because going 17 points behind Celtic by January was deemed as unacceptable. His era lasted 6 months.

I'm not sure of the point that you are trying to make here.

 

This point is complete nonsense. Our U19's have proven themselves to be the best in the country over the past couple of seasons. Obviously the RST have never heard of Lennon, Fleck, Smith, Emslie, Ness, Wylde, McMillan or Campbell (hope I haven't missed too many here).

U19s are pointless unless the make it into the first team. The jury is still out in respect of this, but I'm hearing rumours that the U19s are not impressed by the current set-up at MP (particularly with the coaches).

 

I haven't seen too much evidence of this in recent years, but nonetheless, football clubs constantly sell players either to bring in new ones or to bring in money when it's needed.

I presume that the point that they are making is that we are having to sell Boyd (our top scorer) to finance the purchase of Lafferty or Velicka and Edu.

 

High quality 1st team SPL players transfer for a fraction of what we see similar quality players transferring for in the EPL, so it's of no surprise at all that SPL fringe players fetch very little if anything at all in the transfer market. If we get any reasonable return on fringe players it should be considered as a bonus especially when other SPL clubs can't afford the wages that the players are on at Rangers.

I have sympathy with your viewpoint. I presume that the RST are comparing us to Celtic, but I believe that they are better at saying that they got more than we did. However there are a few examples such asJRod , who was let go for nothing, but was in the French squad within 2 months, which appear to be negligence by our management team.

 

 

I dispute this point as well. It should probably have read more like - 'Failure to be prudent with the profits from our most lucrative ever season & reduce the club's debt'

Qualification fto the CL and reaching the final of the UEFA cup and we still couldn't make a profit. We had to sell hutton to do that. We vastly overpaid bonuses, and Murray and Bain have not been criticised enough for this.

 

It could be argued that this is not solely the club's fault, but also the fault of the likes of the RST, given that RST members claim the exact same thing with regards to the actions of the RST. Maybe it's time the RST concentrated on speaking to the support & the club on behalf of the support, before running to the press to have their voice heard.

The club have the primary responsibility here. The RST have a small percentage of the support. The club seem unable to relate to a lot of the support and are unwilling to interact with them, which is disgraceful.

 

This point is a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Murray has actually been very successful at attracting inward investment, and I don't believe this point by the RST is valid. However at least the RST are trying to raise funds through Gersave.

 

 

The club are really up against it on this point. They've been up against a powerful politically & religiously backed campaign to smear the Rangers fans & the club. The fact they can't be seen by governing bodies to be condoning any sectarianism, puts them in an extremely difficult position. They can't possibly get into petty arguments about who does what & who says what on either side of the old firm.

I'd agee it's a difficult position, but the club have made virtually no attempt to argue in behalf of the fans. At every juncture they are happy to take the easy option or not get involved, and allow the support to be criticised, often unfairly (Spiers, Keevins, RC et al). However there are times that the support doesn't help itself.

 

I wouldn't disagree with either of these points, but the way it's worded is moronic. The 2 points worded together in that way are contradictory. Why anyone would defend those who are criticizing them defies any sense of logic. As I said, it's poorly worded.

Are you trying to say that the club should not defend it's support because a few people in the support have raised some valid criticism? Sorry, I don't agree with you, and don't see it as moronic in the slightest, although would agree that the wording could be improved.

 

Can't say I agree with that point either. Maybe for some fans, but not for all fans & to be blunt, I think the spreading of doom & gloom via modern technology dictates that we're our own worst enemy regarding morale.

Morale is generally low, but that can change very quickly and I'd agree that this point should not have been raised.

 

In short, I have issues with practically every single point that the RST made in this statement. I also have a major issue with the fact that they released it all without direct consultation with Rangers fans as a whole via a mass survey conducted outside Ibrox on match days, otherwise there's absolutely no foundation for parroting on about how things can be done 'better' & fan morale being so low.

I don't see that the RST have an obligation to consult all Rangers fans. They act on behalf of their members. I don't believe a mass survey would work anyway. have you ever tried to hand out leaflets outside Ibrox? I have and a vast majority won't be interested.

 

I also disagree with Frankie on the point that they should have consulted their membership on this. However there should have been more consultation with other fans groups to get them on board before it was released.