JohnMc

Okay, how about the 3 Million EU nationals living, working and paying taxes in the UK who aren't allowed to vote in UK General Elections? Do they fit your narrow dictionary definition okay? I'd ask you to read again about the million or so people who dropped off the electoral register in 2015, most without realising they had. There might not be Jim Crow laws in place but there's a tacit acceptance that many of those people might not have voted as the government of the time wanted.

Gaffer speaks for me on this thread. That's very sad news.

I disagree. In terms of those who are literally disenfranchised the Electoral Commission put that number around 7 million people, nearly 15% of the population eligible to vote. There are various reasons for this, some people clearly don't care and choose not to register, but there are other reasons too. A change in the law in 2015 meant households could no longer register people to vote, individuals had to do it themselves. This led to a large drop in registered voters. You've also got a significant number of people who have defaulted on debt, child support, credit card bills, council tax that type of thing who 'disappear' for a number of years. These people are still part of society but often working in the black economy or not working at all. I personally know a number of guys who have gone through bad divorces and almost dropped off the edge of society. They aren't registered to vote, they don't pay taxes, they no longer contribute to their communities. Then you have the people who are figuratively disenfranchised. There are millions of people around the UK who simply choose not to vote. There are constituencies in this country where almost half of the residents don't bother voting. These are always some of the poorest and most deprived areas in the country. It can be no coincidence that a significant percentage of the poorest and most socially excluded people are not engaged with mainstream politics. I mean it's ironic, but it can't be a coincidence. For local elections the figures are even worse.

It is indeed just your opinion. For a start there is no 'us'. We're not homogenous, we come from a myriad of backgrounds, beliefs and experiences. Wearing a Rangers scarf only tells you what football team I support. It gives you no insight into my religious, political, social or cultural beliefs. Frankie ran a poll on here at the time of the referendum and, surprise surprise, it showed 'us' to be largely inline with the rest of the country when it came to voting intentions. There are reasons why politics in the West of Scotland seems to have such a Roman Catholic dominance, and they are worth exploring and understanding. It's also worth exploring why so many working class people have become disenfranchised by politics and never vote.

All youngsters at Man Utd are described as so, it's a journalistic law dating back to the time of Busby!

The Polis are an unusual organisation. I've known coppers with the sickest sense of humour, where literally nothing was out of bounds to joke about. When challenged they'd explain it was their way of dealing with what they saw and dealt with on a regular basis. I don't know the person involved but I see she heads up the Human Trafficking division; can you imagine what she must see and hear about on a weekly basis? Just try and imagine what kind of individuals she must have to deal with. If that doesn't harden you and change your tolerance of what's acceptable to joke about and what isn't then I don't know what will. I suspect this is a personal thing. The person who made the complaint might dislike her, be envious of her success or have a problem with a woman giving orders, who can tell. But 'common-sense' left the police force a while ago and senior police in particular should be aware of who they can speak openly in front of and who they can't. It's a shame, none of this has the slightest bearing on her ability to do her job after all.

Reading my post again I can see that part could be misread. I meant both have been approached by others for their manager's position. Coleman by Sunderland and O'Neill by Scotland. I've no idea if Rangers approached either of them, the point I was trying to make was if we'd been waiting until their international commitments were over then we should have acted by now, as others have.

Thanks for the kind words everyone. Despite everything it was a good day. My Dad and I were annoyed by the score but to be honest the kids weren't really, they just enjoyed the whole experience and want to go again! Mission accomplished. It was funny to see the stadium through their eyes. The big banners at the megastore and opposite the ground really caught their attention and they wouldn't go past them until I'd named all of them and explained who they were. The Greig statue and the gates were big highlights too again lots of questions. We were in the Club Deck so they couldn't actually see all the other stands, but they were really taken with the Union Bears (?) the guy with the megaphone and the drummers were a big attraction, I expect them to ask if we can sit near them next time... And Gaffer, I laughed when I read your post. I try not to swear in front on my children for obvious reasons, but they heard some fairly industrial language yesterday (not from me although I felt like it on several occasions!). I noticed them sniggering when someone near us let rip with a stream of some fairly justified obscenities at Windass. It reminded me that going to the football as a kid is also about mixing with grown ups, doing what grown ups do, that's also part of the attraction of the match. As long as they don't repeat them in front of their mother or Granny it should be okay...

Whether you agreed with Pedro's dismissal or not it was clear fairly early in the season that he 'might' need replaced, it's astonishing that a list of possible Rangers managers, based on salary expectations, cost to remove them for current position and suitability for the job wasn't drawn up by the board then. I mean surely the list of 2nd, and 3rd choice candidates to replace Warburton is still in drawer somewhere! If, for reasons of cost, we're not able to attract a top European manager or one with English Premier League experience then fine, if our budget means we're looking for managers from smaller leagues, like Scotland, or out of work managers then again that's fine, draw the list up from those guys. But why nobody has been approached far less appointed is bewildering. If it's to be McInness then get the job done, why wait? If it's to be Allerdyce or McLaren or McLeish then again why the delay? If it's someone else already in a job then make the approach and if it's rebuffed move on to the next person or go back with a better offer. If it was an international manager we want and we needed to wait until after the play-offs then why has nothing happened since? Both Coleman and O'Neill have been approached and in one case appointed already. So what puzzles many of us is that surely the board realised that Pedro might not make it at least a few weeks before he did leave, that's five weeks now. That's a long time in any profession, far less football. I understand the need to be careful and carry out diligence and all of that but this is a surprisingly long time. If they were expecting to hear from someone and they haven't yet then make contact with him. If the board is split on this then find resolution to it, that's how boards function.

If it came down to a choice between Wright and McInness I'm not sure which one I'd choose. I really admire what Wright has done at St Johnstone on a considerably smaller budget than McInness has. It's a big step up to Rangers though.

Really, 19? Bloody hell. Who knew reformed heroin dealers would be the vanguard for gender fluidity. Again though that's not what this is about, is it? It's about accepting people whatever their differences. I'm not sure there is a difference between tolerance and approval. If you don't approve then you must disapprove and we're into fairly shaky ground if that's the case. It's like saying you tolerate someone who is left handed or is going bald. It's not something people have a choice in, I mean you could tie their hand behind their back or insist they have a hair transplant, but you're simply suppressing something they've no control over. Yeah, fair enough. It was a dickish thing to say, I apologise.

I'm taking my two sons to Ibrox for the first time this Saturday. Hamilton Accies at home under a caretaker manager perhaps wasn't the match I envisaged would be their first when they were born but we're all out of big European nights and glamour friendlies currently. My first match was John Greig's testimonial game in 1978. In truth I was too young to appreciate it but my dad so admired Greig he wanted me to see him play and he wanted to pay tribute to him. We played a Scotland select and I've only a few memories of it. One was the Nottingham Forest winger John Robertson's family sitting behind us and supporting Rangers. He later became assistant manager at Celtic, I always wondered how they felt about that. My Dad is coming on Saturday too, along with my brother-in-law (who is actually a St Mirren fan!) and two of his sons, my nephews. It'll be their first Rangers game too. My youngest is a year older now than I was in 1978 so I'm not sure how much he'll remember about it when he's in his late 40s. Neither of my boys are as interested in football as I was at their age, but they both say they support Rangers (my wife laughed when I 'd say to people I'd let them choose who they supported, she's right, that wasn't ever going to happen) so they're very excited about it. Anyway, I don't always agree with everyone on Gersnet about everything, sometimes even I realise I'm being a thrawn at times. But I'm strangely emotional about Saturday, it feels like a big deal. Also, if you could try and not swear too much on Saturday that would be great!

I've not met that many ex-Celtic players but I have met a few and most were surprisingly friendly and warm about Rangers. I think ex-players do view things differently to supporters. I was at a function a few years back and Frank McAvennie was there. I'd him down as ned, nothing more. But I was really surprised by him. He not only spoke well, his anecdotes were very funny, he was self-deprecating and when he realised there were a few bluenoses there told some cracking stories about Souness. I wanted to hate him, it was annoying!

It's an interesting thread this one. Darther complained there are "sooooo many labels", I think there are four, maybe a couple more, it's not exactly a difficult number to count either way. As for fear of offending someone, if you do, apologise, ask what term you should use, use that one and then move on. It's not that hard. It also seems to get rolled up with other grievances people have with current society. I mean this has literally got nothing to do with poppies being sold at someone's work, or what kind of toilet's Starbucks has, literally nothing. Likewise whether someone got their knob out in front of Craig's wife or traumatised Gonzo's son by having an arse. There are already laws regarding that, make a complaint. Also that apparent teacher being suspended, you might want to hang on before shouting about that one too much. There's more to come out about his behaviour, his disregard for rules and the 'evangelical' zeal he's got for imposing his beliefs on children he's supposed to be teaching academic subjects too. The Christian Legal Centre are Tea Party wannabe creationist loonballs, be interesting to see how many of us would want him teaching our kids. Anyway, I'm pleased the club are willing to support openness and welcome all to the stadium.

I've met Jim Craig a few times and I quite liked him, he's smarter than your average ex-player. Unfortunately I also think he's correct in his observation about Ibrox.

This isn't about "celebrating" anything, it's about saying to some people who might feel marginalised or that they have to hide who they are shouldn't be scared or nervous about coming to watch Rangers. If your son or daughter asks about the rainbow laces (and, frankly, your kids will already know about them and will probably explain them to you) it's not a difficult conversation to have. It's about saying everyone is welcome, there isn't anymore to explain than that. There are almost certainly homosexuals in the current Rangers squad, but they haven't come out. I'd be astonished if the Rangers women's side doesn't have some lesbian players too. These people exist, they are part of our communities, they're your son or daughter, nephew, they are someone at work. I went to school in the 70s and 80s and if someone had come out as gay at my secondary I genuinely worry they'd have been kicked to death. I can remember guys who got a terrible time at school because there was just something a wee bit different about them. Isn't it better now? All this being hung up on genders and fluidity, where does it mention any of that in the story? It's not about whether you think men can become women or the reverse, it's about whether someone should feel safe and comfortable being themselves at a Rangers match. The very fact that we're even discussing this on Gersnet is proof that campaigns like this are needed and can work.

I found a home in your eyes? Are we encouraging him to score or asking him on a date?

Serious question Frankie; what's tricky about it? Is it just the nomenclature? In the post above Bill used the term "torrent of crap" which Gonzo seems to have agreed with. Perhaps Bill or Gonzo will expand on their concern(s) with this. Not knowing what the correct term is to describe someone seems to me a fairly low barrier to understanding the issues people face though. Perhaps Bill and Gonzo's response to this is exactly why the club should be getting involved.

Why does this topic upset people so much?

My issue with the statistics analysis in football is its inability to factor in the team aspect of football. In cricket or baseball you can measure the bowler and the batsman in isolation, they are less reliant on the other members of their team at that specific moment, although not totally unreliant. Football is different. Take Tav, would he have better stats for example if he'd a player like Stevie Davis in front of him instead of Candeias? Yes, he would, but would that make him a better player? In 2010 Kilmarnock sold Connor Sammon to Wigan for £600,000. Anyone who has seen Connor Sammon play would raise an eyebrow at that figure because to put it bluntly he's a pretty average journeyman striker. Sammon was in his third season at Killie having scored the grand total of 7 goals in 49 matches in the previous two seasons Sammon amazingly scored 18 goals from 27 appearances in his final season sealing his move south. So what happened, how did Sammon go from energetic dumpling to international player in one season? Well, Kilmarnock signed an alcoholic Finnish genius called Alexie Eremenko. Eremenko hates training, can't tackle and doesn't like running on the pitch, but he can turn like few players, has wonderful vision and can make a pass from almost any position on the pitch. With Eremenko playing Sammon in half a dozen times every game Sammon turned into a goal machine and Kilmarnock's bank manager had a smile on his face for the first time (and last) in years. Connor Sammon scored a grand total of one goal in 43 appearances for Wigan. He's currently on loan at Partick Thistle where he mainly operates as a sub. Now Sammon's stats were stunning for one season, but they didn't tell you the whole story. I quite like stats and no doubt some of them are helpful, but they can be very misleading as well. Football is a team game and each player is very reliant on the players around him. One player's passing stats can be greatly improved if the players around him make themselves available to take a pass, but if he's forced to hoof it into the channels then his stats won't be as good, but that doesn't tell us if he's a better player or not. Likewise having someone who can get on the end of a cross greatly improves the likelihood of a full back or midfielder crossing the ball in the first place. I think there are under-rated players out there, players who do a ton of work that's not always seen or appreciated by fans, and stats like distance covered and number passes can help with that. But the only way to judge a player is to see him play, in the flesh, against other players.

Well it's not completely irrelevant, but it's not exactly the same I accept that. That's why I'd have expected him to go for two thirds of Toral's value even though McKay had played twice as many first team games and has international experience unlike Toral.

From the perspective that he was clearly a wanted player by a manager who knew him well and a club in the fairly prosperous English Championship I'd have expected us to take at least double that amount. For all McKay was untested at that level clearly Warburton, Weir and McParland rated him and wanted him so we had a bit more leverage than was being suggested. Plus if Jon Toral is worth £3 million to a Championship club and ex-Motherwell keeper Darren Randolph is worth £5 million then McKay is worth at least £2 million and I think he was a better player than Toral.

It's your 'Moneyball' effect on football, innit. That works for baseball and with cricket too but I'm not sure it works as well with football, they're very different sports. I could be convinced Candeias is a more effective player than he sometimes looks, but anyone who watches Tav knows he goes to sleep at crosses when at the back post, no amount of pass completion/final third assists or whatever can measure that rather large defensive frailty he has.

This isn't about whether Boyd was the best striker of all time or not, it's about this belief some have that he's not qualified to comment on players playing in the same league as him, that's just bizarre. I'd have thought your opinion on some of the players you played with, and against, when in the Juniors would be better informed and accurate than your views on someone you'd never actually played against, don't you? If you were actually playing in the SPFL just now Boabie then your opinion on current SPFL players would carry more weight on here than most of the rest of us. As an aside I rate Boyd more for what he did in his spells with Kilmarnock (and is still doing for them) , playing with poorer players and getting far fewer chances than at Rangers.

Hasn't Jack had 4 red cards, didn't he get one in pre-season too? Jack deserves criticism for his red card against Kilmarnock, rescinded or not. He was incredibly naive to get involved with Broadfoot, if he's being out-smarted by big Kirk he's not ready for full international matches. Is it arrogance to voice the opinion that someone might not be good enough for international football just because that person isn't anymore? Where does that leave you and me then!