Frankie

I don't think it's fair to suggest that just because MD has strong views on TBK that he's been guaranteed a board position or the like. After all, the rest of us also have strong views on all bids but none of us have been promised anything. Like I say, I don't mind constructive criticism of the RST but I'd much rather it wasn't personal or without basis. Also, I resent the inference that just because a few posters may have their own strong opinions on people/organisations, it's somehow reflective of this site or the way it is run.

Well, I think the protest last weekend worked well & certainly focussed the mind of SFA committee members and sponsors. I feel that shows we can lobby effectively - a power which should be used more often.

I disagree. I think our fans do have the power to affect certain situations. We just don't do it effectively for a variety of reasons.

Even as a former board member, I agree with much of your criticism and I think even the Trust struggle with Mark's involvement (and the association to FF). To be frank, I'm sure Mark's influence does cause problems for many people but (TBK support aside) his performance over the last few months has been pretty good - certainly better than many people could do. I don't see many alternatives. I turned down a Scotland Tonight slot because I don't feel confident on live TV and I also found a recorded interview with SSN difficult. It's not easy so I admire Mark for his efforts there. This is the problem we have - participation in such groups is low and even those that do enjoy such work are usually only interested volunteers rather than experts. Thus, I don't think removing Mark would really help solve that apathy though I do agree some sort of reform would benefit fan representation. Are we really capable of doing so when we already know we don't have enough fans interested in the 'political' debate?

Surely if a newco/hive-down/incubator was as simple as how Miller suggests it, all bidders would we doing the same and we would have went through it by now. I'm extremely suspicious but, then again, what choice do we have anyway.

Whyte is interested in one thing - cash and lots of it. He will get it somehow IMO and he won't care who is hurt to ensure it. Putting companies out of business is his day job.

Not at all. Just one OTT suggestion from one bear. No chance of this happening at all.

Whyte and Murray are two sides of the same coin but I guess Murray is ultimately responsible.

As I've said all along, I wouldn't rule out any bidder until the club is actually sold. In my opinion the last couple of weeks has seen some gentle PR put out there to make the idea of a newco/hive down/incubator appear attractive. Now, I'm no businessman but it probably is the most attractive for all bidders if you look at the long term (and if the SPL/SFA sanctions are not carried). If there isn't much fan opposition to Miller being named preferred bidder (if indeed he is) then I think we'll see other bidders rejoin the fray with their version of a newco. In fact, I'd say this was the intention all along for some - hence delay after delay - as Whyte was never going to hand over his shares. Indeed, you could say this is just the end of a plan that started one year ago.

And you're entitled to make them, of course. I just don't think the RST or our fellow bears at FF are any more culpable than anyone else when it comes to what has happened. Our fanbase is 'politically' fragile and apathetic generally. Saturday's protest showed we do have teeth but we lack cohesion where it matters.

JC: I think that's a fair point. The last few months should have seen the Trust membership rise ten fold (or more). While fan apathy is always a fair reason for that not happening, the Trust should ask itself why they're not seen as the default fan leaders they should have been (and could still be).

I don't think it's worth playing the blame game, folks. The RST are first to admit they're not perfect but I don't think they contributed to the failure of the TBK bid.

I'd fancy any new owner will want all contracts revisited and merchandise/marketing will definitely be one of those.

I don't think it's correct to start blaming people. While I think the fan organisations were wrong to back one horse so strongly, they will only have made up their mind based on the info available to them. In essence, we were always going to be powerless to stop any D&P decision.

I'm not sure mate. All strips are bought from JJB so we're just the middle-man I'd have thought.

Good question mate. Obviously the club don't make any money from selling the strip so I'd fancy although we're helping with the marketing (an obligation of the contract I'm sure), JJB and Umbro will be the ones selling it to make money. All the more reason for them to do it now before any contract is changed or removed in the future.

Because Whyte cannot be delivered. That's the most simple answer so the most likely - welcome conspiracy theories aside of course!

I doubt they want it but they may not have any choice.

Stalling tactics indeed. No news on SFA appeal. No certainty of an SPL vote on Monday either. However, I don't expect the SFA sanctions to prevail or the SPL rules to be voted through. Add in the problems over Whyte's holding and Ticketus' probably opposition to a CVA, all signs are pointing to newco.

Not sure how D&P can name them preferred bidder then. Same goes for Miller obviously.

Because it's conditional also and they've said they won't accept conditional bids. TBK will have to very soon decide if they want to pay off Whyte or apply for newco.

It was quite an interesting Q&A actually. Not a lot of new information but certainly confirmation that the Ticketus deal is on shaky ground and Whyte cannot be removed easily (if at all).

Brinkmanship. TBK will be well aware that the chances of a CVA are 50/50 at best. Of course they will have explored a newco and at some point they're going to have to devote more resources into that route. D&P know that they can't deliver Whyte so are perhaps attempting to force TBK down the newco route. Or at least pressure them into opening up a little. Miller can sit back and watch them squabble. The gentle promotion of newco via a variety of sources lately isn't a coincidence IMO.

I think a newco is now more probable than a CVA. Neither bidder can get (or wants) Whyte's shares.

..due to pressure of work. Interesting timing! http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/ralph-topping-steps-down-from-sfa-board-commitments-1-2266262