Frankie

Cal: Being a member of the few dozen whom do actually still sing at Ibrox, I find your generalisations rather unfair. At Ibrox, the Sash and DW are still sung reasonably regularly (especially the latter) and I rarely (if at all) hear any add-ons when they are. Now you may not like them (and I respect your opinion and reasons for it) but others do and given our decades (or longer) club's affinity with the context of these songs, it is understandable that many others do like them. Nonetheless, I agree that some (not a lot but a fair number) use such songs and their symbolism in a negative fashion. A fashion that is all too eagerly pointed out by the authorities and those hostile to our club. However, I'd say this is exaggerated to a huge degree and I don't see any reason why these songs shouldn't be sung in a general sense. I use myself as the perfect example. I'm Protestant by birth but not religious although retaining an obvious affinity with that religion via various aspects of my life. I'm Scottish and British in proudly equal proportions and I retain a slight affinity with those that are Irish/British and support my club. As I would if they were French, Dutch or Irish Catholic. As a result of both these aspects of my personality, I like to sing songs that - strictly speaking - probably have little relevance to me or my football club. That's because I interpret them in a different way as will be the case with everyone who sings them. Ergo, I don't consider myself (or the songs) as embarrassing, uncomfortable, intolerant, stupid, weird or irrational. Just an individual who enjoys singing harmless songs to increase my enjoyment of a football game. And here's another aspect of why I sing them. To annoy others. Yes, I admit it; I like a bit of banter at the fitba and singing these songs (and others) contributes to the side of the game that is being lost by politically correct people intent on sanitising our game to a higher level than the toilets in our hospitals. Indeed, one could suggest such people are as embarrassing, uncomfortable, intolerant, stupid, weird or irrational as those they want to insult.

I don't care if the club wasn't found on that basis. Were we to exclude Ulsterman from following Rangers or Protestants from making the club their focal point in an institutional sense? I'm more concerned with nowadays. The fact is Rangers are a wholly inclusive club with a wide variety of people who serve us as staff as well as supporters from all over the world. Every creed and colour is represented and we should respect everyone in that regard. Including those who want to sing about DW, the Sash or even the Flower of Scotland if they so choose.

Both Ulster and Protestantism became part of Rangers a period after the club's formation - Ure Primrose, the Clyde shipyards and the influx of Irish catholics all contributory factors from around 1890 onwards. I'm sure a few of the founding fathers were of Ulster Scots heritage also. It is disingenuous to automatically link these aspects of the club and society's impact upon it with sectarianism.

I'll see what I can do mate...

Song choice is a very subjective issue - even outwith football - so I don't have a problem with anyone not enjoying The Sash or Derry's Walls. However, these people have no right to suggest those that do enjoy them (myself included) should stop singing them because a very small minority may sing them with a different meaning to the majority. In the absence of TBB, Derry's Walls is one last song that has our fans singing in their tens of thousands - home and away - and it is not offensive, is not sectarian and is certainly nothing to be embarrassed about. Personally, I'm not overly interested in Ulster (either its present or past situation) so I see the song as merely one that I can sing which tells us about our strength and pride as we go into the battle of a football match (and sometimes beyond nowadays). No surrender indeed!

Yes it's clear and I don't blame the lad for wanting first team football. He's shown himself capable of playing at the highest levels so why shouldn't he want to play more often. I'd imagine he'll give it another 6 months here to see if AM leaves. If that does happen, Alexander will become our number 1 so he'll be more than happy to stay.

I don't disagree. Walter could gag his players from talking about contracts/transfers until after the Celtic game at least. We face a difficult run of matches in a short period of time so I'd prefer to know our players were concentrating on where they are now as opposed to where they'll be next season. However, as indicated earlier, it suits the club (and probably the manager) for people to make themselves available.

With McGregor's future unclear I doubt Alexander will be interested in going anywhere for the time being...

As we all know though the club wouldn't be averse to the odd offer for any player so they're unlikely to care too much about such coverage. Add in their responsibilities to the media then it shouldn't be a surprise to any of us to see club affairs conducted in public more than ever.

Miller has been typical of the whole team - inconsistent: very poor on occasion, very lively on others; but generally average (or just below average). Only McGregor and Boyd can say they've been above average. Wilson and Weir have also done pretty well but after that the team haven't been good enough. However, complaining because the fans are happy after a player has had a good game is rather churlish, Totti...

Heard Allan Preston gave Davis as his MoM on the radio but everyone in my car found that a bit strange. As usual he flitted in and out of the game, played a few excellent passes, played some very poor ones and generally didn't get forward enough for me. Probably a good description of his whole season so far.

Quite frankly the story is embarrassing and has no place in the sectarian debate. Enter any pub in Scotland and you'll find similar or worse behaviour from a wide section of society. Anyone with half a brain (and I include NOTW readers in that) will agree. It will be interesting to see if this newspaper looks to find some balance in that regard but I doubt it. I also doubt anything will change in this regard as the club don't do enough and neither do the people mentioned in such articles.

It was around that time the wee man started to get into the game actually. He's been pretty poor lately - even if he's only had the odd few minutes here and there - but found some fine form yesterday thankfully.

Thought Miller was our best player in the first half but he fell out of the game after half-time while Novo sparkled. Important to add that every forward player is benefiting from the form of Kris Boyd. Lad is in the best form of his life and while questions remain about his contribution against higher quality teams, he is quite simply invaluable for Rangers FC. An early candidate for Player of the Year.

Another non-story.... Quite laughable really.

http://www.gersnetonline.co.uk/2010/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=181:rangers-3-0-st-johnstone-player-ratings-and-mom-poll&catid=35:analysis&Itemid=67 :nn: for me...

That's ideal mate - now a sticky!

Once again, I'd like to pass on my good wishes on behalf of Gersnet to the Nithsdale in their efforts against the tangerine bullies from Dundee. Win or loss, their pro-active work in this case is a great example of how bears (and football fans generally) can work together and achieve results in the most difficult of circumstances. More power to their elbow!

Tannochside Bear gives us the lowdown on recent events with his RSC - the Nithsdale Loyal RSC - versus Dundee Utd who as well all know disgracefully plan to charge fans for a previous game being called off. http://www.gersnetonline.co.uk/2010/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=180 On Sunday 1 November 2009, the SPL match between Dundee United and Rangers was abandoned at half time due to the terrible weather and conditions which were becoming unplayable in the view of the referee, supported by both managers and players. Dundee United made an announcement that the game was being abandoned, and for fans to retain their ticket stubs. The game, in which Rangers were leading 1-0 was deleted from the records as having not happened at all, it is not included in the league tables, it is essentially as if it never started at all. Dundee United's ground regulations include the following, crucial, piece of information regarding matches of this nature. ââ?¬Å?Where a match is abandoned during an all ticket match, the retained portion of that ticket, the value of which will subsequently be determined by the Club, will be valid to exchange or part exchange (if the value is subsequently determined to be less than the full ticket price to be charged for the re-arranged fixture) for a ticket at the re-arranged fixture. Any supporter who cannot attend the re-arranged fixture will be entitled to a refund of the subsequently determined value of the ticket voucher or ticket provided that an application for a refund is received by the Club within 14 days of the date of the re-arranged fixture being announcedââ?¬Â On Wednesday 4 November, the SPL announced that the match was to be replayed on Tuesday 15 December. 12 days later, on Monday 16 November, Dundee United announced that the value of the ticket stubs was to be zero, and that all supporters, regardless of whether they attended the first match or not, were going to be able to purchase a match ticket for Ã?£12. Using their own rules, our RSC wrote to Dundee United on Tuesday 17 November to advise them that we would be seeking proper compensation for the match tickets that were supposed to be worth something, but that Dundee United have stated are worth nothing. As this was 13 days after the fixture was announced, we were within our rights to apply for a refund. On Tuesday 17 November, the copy of the ground regulations previously available on Dundee United's website, mysteriously disappeared. Thankfully we had printed off a copy for our records. On Friday 20 November, having received no reply from Dundee United to our enquiry, we wrote to them again seeking an answer to our letter. This time we received a reply the same day informing us that our enquiry had been passed on "to the relevant parties for comment". We had, since the announcement made by Dundee United on Monday 16 November, been in contact with Glasgow Trading Standards office, who looked at our complaint that we had bought tickets to a football match, had not got what we had paid for, and now our tickets were being invalidated. Trading Standards were very supportive of our view and have continued to be most helpful to us throughout. On Tuesday 1 December we received a full reply from Dundee United to our enquiry. Their defence of their decision was to state that the ticket is only for admittance to the ground and not to see the match. It seems to be their logic that it is only a coincidence that a match just so happens to be taking place when fans buy tickets to enter the ground. They go on to state that they have allowed us the opportunity to purchase replacement tickets without the inconvenience of having to send in the old ticket stubs at a discounted price of Ã?£12. On Thursday 3 December I received a very informative email from the guy at Glasgow Trading Standards who has been helping us, prior to our regular monthly club meeting that night. He explained that complaints to Trading Standards normally have 2 elements to them, a civil and a criminal. The civil is surrounding the contract between the consumer and trader and the criminal if the trader has breached any criminal law. In the civil matter, Trading Standards have no power to enforce a solution, they can only offer advice. In a criminal matter, if any breaches of law have occured from the trader, then Trading Standards will report the matter to the Procurator Fiscal who will decide whether any prosecution will be taken. On putting forward all the available information to our members, we decided it was right to proceed with a civil case in the small claims court if we continued to fail to find a solution with Dundee United, using club funds to finance the claim. On Monday 7 December, we wrote to Dundee United to reject their reply of 1 December, and asking them to look again at the matter, whilst informing them that should we be unable to reach an agreeable settlement, we would be left with no other option but to raise a small claims court action against them. On Thursday 10 December, Dundee United announced that they would be giving any profits made from the replayed match to the United for Kids charity. It is important to point out that this charity pays for underpriviledged kids to get season tickets at Dundee United, and while that is of course a worthy gesture and United match any donations Ã?£1 for Ã?£1, it does mean that the money will find its way back to the club eventually. Charity begins at home and all that. Today, Friday 11 December has seen us send the last chance email to Dundee United before going to court next week. At the time of writing I have had no response. Also today has seen some press reporting of the story, with articles in both the Record and Sun's sport pages noting what we are trying to do. I know from being contacted personally, through others at our club, and through Trading Standards, that other supporters clubs are also pursuing this course of action, and we would call for all Rangers supporters who attended the first game to watch this space and be ready to put in similar actions if we are successful. We will of course be helping our fellow bears with instructions as to how to go about things if we manage to get a successful outcome to this for our supporters club. It is our opinion that this game should be treated exactly the same way as a game that was postponed just before kick-off. That goes to say that the costs are still there for the home club, as programmes have been published, police and stewards paid for, catering supplied, and tickets sold. As the game is not on the record books of either side, or the SPL whose tournament the game was played under, or the SFA as governing body of Scottish football, it stands to reason that the ticketing arrangements should be the same as a postponed match, in that the original tickets are valid for the replayed fixture. An appeal for donations to help cover policing and stewarding costs may have attracted a more sympathetic response from fans attending the match. It would also have prevented this from turning into a PR disaster for Dundee United, with many of their own fans just as angry as Rangers fans on this issue. Whilst we only visit Tannadice once or twice a year, their own loyal fans may hit them harder for longer. It is worth pointing out that the SPL rulebook states that ground regulations regarding ticketing are entirely down to the SPL member clubs. That quite simply is a cop out and not good enough, and it is heartening to know that Trading Standards are advising the SPL to change these rules at their next AGM. So even if we go to court and lose, the real winners could be Scottish football fans as rules surrounding this issue are almost certain to come into force for next season to prevent a repeat performance of this sad state of affairs.

Yeah, not a problem mate. I believe elfideldo who writes the blog visits here from time to time but if he can't post then if someone like yourself wants to update the thread with new info that would be cool. Make the thread and I'll sticky it. PS: We already have the blog as one of our main link highlights on the main site front page.

Not necessarily I guess as they may have had to go through the PCC if NOTW didn't act....

Sorry boss, I should have added IMO something is afoot as, as is the case, your article is quite correct... By the way does anyone know if the RST obtain a retraction from the NOTW RE: Edgar's alleged comments about the Duffy bid which they said were inaccurate? Wasn't about at the weekend so may have missed this.

Well, I'd imagine that until there is some movement on providing a workable in-depth model for debate and/or the change of position from the bank/MIH and/or another reason for deserved publicity (e.g. the backing of any ownership scheme by credible parties) then there is nothing else to say... And, as I wrote after the AGM, that is much more agreeable in terms of professionalism in my view.

Thanks for the extra info mate - Utd have come out of this looking very bad and I can't see the Nithsdale being on their Xmas card list any time soon... Wonder what wee Jim McLean has to say on the matter - he's unusually quiet of late.

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