In Europe, no-one can hear you dream

[andy steel 0]

At work, discussing Celtic's Champions League debacle with ardent Hoops man G____ D_____, we agreed that the approximate level of the Old Firm was the group stages of the Europa League, and that anything thereafter would be a surprising bonus.

 

Motherwell's success later that night, though, points to what can be done with organisation, determination and a manager who knows his way around a football pitch. One of the main criticisms of Walter Smith has been his European record, and I'm the first to admit its poor. But if we just look at the European games in his second tenure, there haven't been the same humbling humiliations. We've gone from trying to compete with the best, and the second best, and sometimes the third best and failing, to playing to our own strengths and getting the odd result here and there - with the UEFA run the obvious highlight.

 

Craig Brown, so long derided when Scotland boss for his dismal playing style, now seems quite the sage. He took the national side to the finals of major tournaments, and is now achieveing all that could be expected and possibly more with a (to be honest) middling and inexperienced Motherwell side.

 

So what if it bores the likes of Murdo MacLeod to tears? Given that we all know what the style of play will be, no-one needs to go if they dread defensive tactics. Lionel Messi can bang on about anti-football if he wants, but the reality is that results are all that matters - all the dreams of flowing, silky soccer won't be worth a bean should we be dumped out of Europe before Christmas.

 

I think an equivalent for Rangers, that is, one to match Motherwell's achievement, would be to stagger into the Europa league. I don't honestly think we'll do it, unless pitched into a hitherto unimaginably weak CL group, but I do think that with Walter Smith and his functional, dour, but effective tactics, we have a better chance than we would have without him. It may not be pretty; but dreams will get us nowhere.

[Frankie 8,529]

Nice post mate...

 

I agree results are important (which arguably makes the league the most important competition for us now) but we shouldn't be afraid to retain some ambition in our play. Either in terms of style and/or competing with teams that may be financially stronger at this moment in time.

Edited August 6, 2010 by Frankie

[ian1964 10,720]

You can only piss with the c**k you've got!!,an organised hard working team can achieve an awful lot, as Rangers proved by getting to the UEFA CUP FINAL, and it takes a lot of hard work and organising to be good at not getting beat:).................anti football YER ARSE:whistle:

[Guest Northampton_loyalist]

I mostly agree with what you are saying but would contest that we have not avoided humiliations this time round. 4-1 at home against a team that sounds like something you piss through can only really be considered a humbling regardless of the missed pen and 3 own goals. Losing in a qualifier to Hertz reserves is a pretty embarrasing result also.

[Guest Guivarc'h]

I mostly agree with what you are saying but would contest that we have not avoided humiliations this time round. 4-1 at home against a team that sounds like something you piss through can only really be considered a humbling regardless of the missed pen and 3 own goals. Losing in a qualifier to Hertz reserves is a pretty embarrasing result also.

 

Kaunas would've been a totally different story if Darcheville hadn't missed an open goal in the first leg. Thomson's goal in Lithuania would've left them needing 3 and would've pretty much ended the tie. I still find it difficult to criticise Walter too much for that defeat. Our players still looked totally shattered from playing 70 matches the previous season and we only lost ('only') because of a mistake at the back in the final 2 minutes

[andy steel 0]

I did forget about the Urine game, I admit. I must have blocked it out!

 

It is (was, anyway: this season just fills me with fear, in European terms) an isolated result, though, whereas before we were pretty much guaranteed a pumping every season. Even the most pragmatic of tactics and hardworking of teams will, now and again, come a cropper and that was our night for a pasting. On the whole, though, Smith has improved the efficiency of the team at the expense of ambition - like against Barcelona, we hardly attacked and stole a point while gettin 'only' a 2-0 defeat away. Was Smith in charge for that game? I can't recall. But the point is the same, that I have come to the conclusion that its better to lose lightly while playing defensively than get pumped having a go, and that such a tactic will sometimes get you a surprisingly long way.

 

That was going to be the rest of this piece but I found it here when I came home from work!

[Guest Northampton_loyalist]

I did forget about the Urine game, I admit. I must have blocked it out!

 

It is (was, anyway: this season just fills me with fear, in European terms) an isolated result, though, whereas before we were pretty much guaranteed a pumping every season. Even the most pragmatic of tactics and hardworking of teams will, now and again, come a cropper and that was our night for a pasting. On the whole, though, Smith has improved the efficiency of the team at the expense of ambition - like against Barcelona, we hardly attacked and stole a point while gettin 'only' a 2-0 defeat away. Was Smith in charge for that game? I can't recall. But the point is the same, that I have come to the conclusion that its better to lose lightly while playing defensively than get pumped having a go, and that such a tactic will sometimes get you a surprisingly long way.

 

That was going to be the rest of this piece but I found it here when I came home from work!

 

Smith was certainly incharge, yes. We played and beat Livorno in a europa league campaign the half season before he came back..

 

 

As I said, I agree with most of what you are saying and fully understand Smiths tactics in Europe. They seem to work well for us and it is interesting that playing 'his' way we reached the europa final, following that Smith said he would bow to fans wishes and play a more expansive game. We got tanked off nearly everyone we faced. Maybe Smith does know better after-all?

[Guest Northampton_loyalist]

Kaunas would've been a totally different story if Darcheville hadn't missed an open goal in the first leg. Thomson's goal in Lithuania would've left them needing 3 and would've pretty much ended the tie. I still find it difficult to criticise Walter too much for that defeat. Our players still looked totally shattered from playing 70 matches the previous season and we only lost ('only') because of a mistake at the back in the final 2 minutes

 

Ifs buts and maybes mate. The bottom line is that we should not have been in a position to lose to a last minute goal, regardless of how it came. kaunas really were/are gash.

 

If people want to give Smith the credit for Manchester, something I am fully behind, they need to apportion blame where it is meritted too and Dailly in centre mid would be considered something to blame him for IMO.

[gisabeer 409]

At work, discussing Celtic's Champions League debacle with ardent Hoops man G____ D_____, we agreed that the approximate level of the Old Firm was the group stages of the Europa League, and that anything thereafter would be a surprising bonus.

 

Motherwell's success later that night, though, points to what can be done with organisation, determination and a manager who knows his way around a football pitch. One of the main criticisms of Walter Smith has been his European record, and I'm the first to admit its poor. But if we just look at the European games in his second tenure, there haven't been the same humbling humiliations. We've gone from trying to compete with the best, and the second best, and sometimes the third best and failing, to playing to our own strengths and getting the odd result here and there - with the UEFA run the obvious highlight.

 

Craig Brown, so long derided when Scotland boss for his dismal playing style, now seems quite the sage. He took the national side to the finals of major tournaments, and is now achieveing all that could be expected and possibly more with a (to be honest) middling and inexperienced Motherwell side.

 

So what if it bores the likes of Murdo MacLeod to tears? Given that we all know what the style of play will be, no-one needs to go if they dread defensive tactics. Lionel Messi can bang on about anti-football if he wants, but the reality is that results are all that matters - all the dreams of flowing, silky soccer won't be worth a bean should we be dumped out of Europe before Christmas.

 

I think an equivalent for Rangers, that is, one to match Motherwell's achievement, would be to stagger into the Europa league. I don't honestly think we'll do it, unless pitched into a hitherto unimaginably weak CL group, but I do think that with Walter Smith and his functional, dour, but effective tactics, we have a better chance than we would have without him. It may not be pretty; but dreams will get us nowhere.

 

Kuanus and Unirea. If you dont think we were humiliated by those two then you are either blind or have the skin of 6 rhinos!

 

Smiths record is diplorable. and as for his style of play, it isnt that he chooses it, its the only way he knows. hes a one trick pony.

 

i am of the thinking that football that isnt worth watching isnt worth playing so i dont accept the dour but effective excuse that is used in the defence of smith. our manager is limited in his ability, its plain for all too see.

[Guest Northampton_loyalist]

Kuanus and Unirea. If you dont think we were humiliated by those two then you are either blind or have the skin of 6 rhinos!

 

Smiths record is diplorable. and as for his style of play, it isnt that he chooses it, its the only way he knows. hes a one trick pony.

 

i am of the thinking that football that isnt worth watching isnt worth playing so i dont accept the dour but effective excuse that is used in the defence of smith. our manager is limited in his ability, its plain for all too see.

 

That is unfair in the extreme. He is no purveyor of fine football and i doubt anyone would disagree but he is the manager to do one thing and one thing above all else. Rangers exists to win silverware, Smith, whatever his faults, wins silverware.

 

Football that is not winning is not worth paying for and I would bet as much as you care to wager that the day the SPL trophy is presented more than makes up for dull football through the season.

 

All of that aside, Smith had us playing excellent football last season in patches, none more so than December. He had to contend with a shrunken squad and no fresh blood for 18 months or so and it is extemely churlish, not to mention untrue, to call him limited. His limited ability has so far racked up 19 (I think) trophies and not too many limited managers, even with the OF, manage that feat (particularly when 7 have come during a period of extreme downsizing).

 

Ask the filth what they think of him, their comments will always be tinged with grudging respect. Just a shame our own fans cant do the same.