In Europe, no-one can hear you dream

[wabashcannonball 0]

At work, discussing Celtic's Champions League debacle with ardent Hoops man G____ D_____, we agreed that the approximate level of the Old Firm was the group stages of the Europa League, and that anything thereafter would be a surprising bonus.

 

Motherwell's success later that night, though, points to what can be done with organisation, determination and a manager who knows his way around a football pitch. One of the main criticisms of Walter Smith has been his European record, and I'm the first to admit its poor. But if we just look at the European games in his second tenure, there haven't been the same humbling humiliations. We've gone from trying to compete with the best, and the second best, and sometimes the third best and failing, to playing to our own strengths and getting the odd result here and there - with the UEFA run the obvious highlight.

 

Craig Brown, so long derided when Scotland boss for his dismal playing style, now seems quite the sage. He took the national side to the finals of major tournaments, and is now achieveing all that could be expected and possibly more with a (to be honest) middling and inexperienced Motherwell side.

 

So what if it bores the likes of Murdo MacLeod to tears? Given that we all know what the style of play will be, no-one needs to go if they dread defensive tactics. Lionel Messi can bang on about anti-football if he wants, but the reality is that results are all that matters - all the dreams of flowing, silky soccer won't be worth a bean should we be dumped out of Europe before Christmas.

 

I think an equivalent for Rangers, that is, one to match Motherwell's achievement, would be to stagger into the Europa league. I don't honestly think we'll do it, unless pitched into a hitherto unimaginably weak CL group, but I do think that with Walter Smith and his functional, dour, but effective tactics, we have a better chance than we would have without him. It may not be pretty; but dreams will get us nowhere.

 

Some say the beautiful game is about winning ....at all costs...the more sage realise it is about entertainment, one thing it is not about is being bored to fekin death by negative "let's keep the point we have" piss poor baw numbing alleged tactics.

[gisabeer 409]

That is unfair in the extreme. He is no purveyor of fine football and i doubt anyone would disagree but he is the manager to do one thing and one thing above all else. Rangers exists to win silverware, Smith, whatever his faults, wins silverware.

 

Football that is not winning is not worth paying for and I would bet as much as you care to wager that the day the SPL trophy is presented more than makes up for dull football through the season.

 

All of that aside, Smith had us playing excellent football last season in patches, none more so than December. He had to contend with a shrunken squad and no fresh blood for 18 months or so and it is extemely churlish, not to mention untrue, to call him limited. His limited ability has so far racked up 19 (I think) trophies and not too many limited managers, even with the OF, manage that feat (particularly when 7 have come during a period of extreme downsizing).

 

Ask the filth what they think of him, their comments will always be tinged with grudging respect. Just a shame our own fans cant do the same.

 

if all i was bothered about was the result id watch out for them on the telly. mcleish did extremely well with limited very limited resources but was slated for the quality of his gameplay yet were to applaud smith? last season was a one horse race and we got lucky. given the mhanks start and the fact they have an inexperinced manager this time round we will have a fighting chance this season too.

 

our fate will rest on good fortune and circumstance, nothing else.

[Guest Northampton_loyalist]

The same people that slated McLeish slate Smith. Those same people now look back on Ecks time with a degree of fondness. The reason for that is that long after the games have finished, the results stand. The football during helicopter sunday season and even Dunfermline season was awful in huge patches but people forget the poor entertainment in favour of remembering the results.

 

Football is not ONLY about results but results are the only way to define success and success is needed to breed success. I would far (and I mean REALLY far) prefer a season where we win every game 1-0 and win a treble over a season where we play fantastic football and lose games 4 goals to 5 while winning hee haw. The 'celtic way' was trotted out again under mowbray, he was chosen not to give results on their own but because he played football in a certain way. The results didnt come and we all know how he is seen. Results count for far more than performances.

 

results and entertainment are not mutually exclusive but one has FAR more importance than the other. People will turn up and pay to see a winning team. They wont turn up to watch an entertaining losing team in the same numbers. If they did Falkirk would have had massive crowds a few seasons back.

 

Smith plays percentage football, we need wins because we need money and money comes through wins. When we have a stable footing then great, lets look for a manager who can combine wins and entertainment. Until then the wins will do.

 

 

 

 

 

I notice you completely fail to address the points regarding performances last season, particularly (but not by any means exclusively) during December. The idea that Smith can only play shite fotball is a complete myth, as players like Laudrup will testify to. Horses for courses and we have little money to add flair and invention so we make do with guaranteeing results. 100% fine by me.

[Super_Ally 0]

Kuanus and Unirea. If you dont think we were humiliated by those two then you are either blind or have the skin of 6 rhinos!

 

Smiths record is diplorable. and as for his style of play, it isnt that he chooses it, its the only way he knows. hes a one trick pony.

 

i am of the thinking that football that isnt worth watching isnt worth playing so i dont accept the dour but effective excuse that is used in the defence of smith. our manager is limited in his ability, its plain for all too see.

 

It doesn't matter if you accept it. Smith doesn't answer to you and your view on how he achieves success is irrelevant.

[rbr 1,247]

If style of football was all that mattered , grounds the length and breadth of this country would lie empty week in week out , but the truth is we have an emotional attatchment as fans to what ever club we support , wee clubs get away with the "we play brilliant football" rubbish because they dont expect to win trophies end off , as N.L states Walter Smith is expected nay the support demand he delivers trophies , and none of us in lala internet land will ever appreciate the lonely and pressurised world that he lives in . Some of us though we slaughter his tactics will be forever grateful that he is OUR manager .

[gavin3084 0]

Kuanus and Unirea. If you dont think we were humiliated by those two then you are either blind or have the skin of 6 rhinos!

 

Smiths record is diplorable. and as for his style of play, it isnt that he chooses it, its the only way he knows. hes a one trick pony.

 

i am of the thinking that football that isnt worth watching isnt worth playing so i dont accept the dour but effective excuse that is used in the defence of smith. our manager is limited in his ability, its plain for all too see.

 

Dont see how you can say his record is diplorable, took us to the final of a european competition that i think i can safely say no supporter thought we would see in many of years, had some decent results in champions league games apart from the obvious. what u need to remember this guy is working with a the bear threads of money and has been since he came back, lets be honest we cant match the cream of europe on any level so we have to play to our limits and if that resorts to a 9-1-0 and we get a 0-0 draw with real madrid at the bernabeu ill take it because it is not flair that gets u points its results that gets u points. Jose mourinho, carlo ancelotti, alex ferguson they could all come to Rangers but at the end of the day they would have to resort to the same as walter because thats the resources we have, and as for this shite that people say i would rather watch a flair to get beat than a dour team win is ludicrous ITS A RESULTS BUSINESS DEAL WITH IT!!!!!!

[gisabeer 409]

actually i would rather play with flair and guile and win.

 

I am going to say my last on smith and leave it at that. had our chairman recognsed smiths shortcommings and his innability to compete at the highest level instead of throwing all our cash at him and employed a better of quality of manager then we might not be in the mess we are in now.

 

hes hed far too many chances and wasted far too much cash trying to take us too the next level. hes right there in the thick of it as far as our problems are concerned and should be held accountable for the part hes played.

[gavin3084 0]

actually i would rather play with flair and guile and win.

 

I am going to say my last on smith and leave it at that. had our chairman recognsed smiths shortcommings and his innability to compete at the highest level instead of throwing all our cash at him and employed a better of quality of manager then we might not be in the mess we are in now.

 

hes hed far too many chances and wasted far too much cash trying to take us too the next level. hes right there in the thick of it as far as our problems are concerned and should be held accountable for the part hes played.

I think we would all like to play with flair and win but lets face we have not got the resources for that to happen, we are what we are, i wouldnt say murray has thrown massive amounts of money at him in terms of the amount of years he as been manager in both spells, everybody knows Advocaat's tenure was the the we are paying for now, were u complaining when we went on the uefa cup run or winning the past 2 league titles and cups, i think its a personal thing u have with smith has he pumped ur missus or something?

[craig 5,199]

if all i was bothered about was the result id watch out for them on the telly. mcleish did extremely well with limited very limited resources but was slated for the quality of his gameplay yet were to applaud smith? last season was a one horse race and we got lucky. given the mhanks start and the fact they have an inexperinced manager this time round we will have a fighting chance this season too.

 

our fate will rest on good fortune and circumstance, nothing else.

 

And if all you bothered about was how they performed then you could be watching Greenock Morton instead. But for our championship successes in the past two years we could have been out of business, plain and simple. Playing the "Barcelona way" doesnt guarantee success - just ask Monkeyheid.

 

Smith masterminded our winning back to back titles whilst not purchasing anyone due to having no money whatsoever to spend (partly his own fault admittedly).

 

So surely, surely, we can at least give him credit where it is due.

 

Or would you actually prefer to be watching Morton anyway ?

[craig 5,199]

if all i was bothered about was the result id watch out for them on the telly. mcleish did extremely well with limited very limited resources but was slated for the quality of his gameplay yet were to applaud smith? last season was a one horse race and we got lucky. given the mhanks start and the fact they have an inexperinced manager this time round we will have a fighting chance this season too.

 

our fate will rest on good fortune and circumstance, nothing else.

 

Surely you are contradicting yourself here ?

 

You are saying McLeish did well on limited resources - and by well I assume you mean he won us a fair few trophies ? Yet the mere mention of Smith's name has you throwing that sae logic out of the window and all of a sudden it becomes blind luck.

 

You can't have it both ways.

 

You can use Celtic as an excuse for Smith's success all you want and, lets be real, that is EXACTLY what you are doing - but when you have two managers operating under tight financial constraints, their teams not playing great football (which is the case with both McLeish and Smith) then you simply can't attribute silverware for one of them as "doing well" and silverware for the other as "lucky".

 

I find it highly churlish that you are using "lucky" as an excuse for Smith for last year yet seem to have selective memory when it comes to McLeish.... Smith has NEVER been as lucky as McLeish was in 2005 when Celtic were a shoe-in to win the league at Fir Park that fateful Sunday.

 

In fact, if we are to use that type of analogy then Smith has actually been very UNLUCKY that he isnt actually aiming for 4-in-a-row - fixture congestion had us running on empty when we had a commanding lead.

 

But lets not let facts get in the way of slagging off Walter Smith eh ?