Former Employees

[Guest Northampton_loyalist]

So let me get this straight... Kris Boyd was duty bound to accept an offer from Birmingham simply because it would have made the club money ? So he was to accept a deal in the best interests of the club ? Why should he ? What does/did he owe the club ? Why should he not wait and accept a deal which he feels right for him.

 

 

I have cut it down to there for no other reason than so the next post is easier on the eye.

 

 

Where did I say Boyd was duty bound to look out for the club? The thrust, the entire thrust infact, of your point is that Boyd owes the club nothing and is free to do as he pleases. That is fine.

 

 

I dont see it that way myself.

 

It is not the fact that he should have done anything, it is the fact that the club he proffesses to love figured not one tiny iota in his thinking. the actions he took were absolutely and undenyably the worst possible for the club he supports. The ONLY factor in his mind was how much cash HE could make.

 

 

You clearly have no problem with that but I am watching my club founder in deep financail trouble and have seen a guy leave for nothing, to a WORSE club than Brum, in a WORSE league than Brum and all for a few more quid.

 

If he had no options then fine, if the options were worse, again fine. He had a better club in a beter league on a plate and he chose to leave for a shitey club to earn HIM more cash.

 

 

To make it worse, he was offered �£18k per week in the off season and �£4k per game played for the club he 'loves'. That puts him on �£26k per week when we have a wednesday game, and we have plenty of those.

 

What THAT leaves us with is that Boyd left for a worse club in a worse league for a small amount more money when he could have stayed and earnt great money or left for better and earned the club a few million when we need it most. You see no problem with a Rangers fan acting that way, I do.

 

 

 

 

I will refer you now to the previous post I made. The attitude on here has been a fucking disgrace. I made no comment on other peoples thoughts and have several times stated that you are free to think as you please. I have also stated that I can see the point you are making.

 

In return I have been told it is because of another site I post on, because I am warped and that I am acting like a tim.

 

Despite that you all see some avenue for attacking other websites? for attacking posters from other websites? Utterly pathetic and frankly disgraceful. Nothing short of hypocritical nonesense from people who bitch and moan about what is said in a place they claim to not care about yet manage to ape the traits they hate so well.

 

 

If I choose to think that Boyd can kiss my arse (ALL I have said, not go fuck himself or any other nonesense) then that is my call and I will, as my first post clearly shows, explain my reasoning and debate with anyone who disagrees. Instead I am offered nothing (until you, in fairness) but pathetic 'you are from FF' and yeah but Ellis.....' comments and a warning fro calling someone a cunt when no such thing was said.

 

 

Parochial bullshit and exactly what places like this moan about in other places.

[Gazza_8 233]

Before he went there he was probably universally popular. Provided some amusement on MOTD etc. Soon got infected by their usual nonsense

 

Strachan is a likeable guy, his interviews are always worth a watch. I don't think he got "infected by their usual nonsense" at all. I don't think he cares any more about Celtic than Coventry or Southampton. He was an employee of Celtic, they paid his wages, nothing else!

 

As for Thommo and Boyd. Of course I want them to do well but if they both fail down there I won't be worrying about it, after all, they're not Rangers players anymore!

Edited August 7, 2010 by Gazza_8

[craig 5,199]

What he actually said was that he did not see any paper offer. All that means is that the contract had not been drawn up. Why draw up a contract, pay a lawyer to do so, if you dont know that the player will sign? Boyd was trying to disguise to a degree his mercenary nature.

 

I can appreciate that others dont agree with the stance and if you check back you will find not a single instance of me making any form of judgement on other people for holding their beliefs. If you hold no malice, fine, good even, but if you want the right to make up your own mind you cant be surprised when others do the same and it clashes with your own. Other people, however, are hell of a quick to put it down to FF attitudes, or warped vision and are now even saying it is **** like behaviour. How the fuck anyone on here can criticise FF for it's attitude while behaving like that is well and truly beyond me. There are even numbers of people argueing all points over there, just like here, the difference is it is not being put down to which board someone decides to post on, it is being put down to people having different opinions.

 

Boyd walked away for free to a championship club to get more money when he could have stayed and become very wealthy or left and become very wealthy while making us �£3 million profit and gone to a prem club. There is absolutely no debate there, that is 100% what happened. You have no problem with that behaviour from a self proclaimed Rangers man. I do. I am acting like a **** though. great.

 

No, Boyd said that the offer was not rubber-stamped by the bank. That much Boyd came out and said. There was never any FORMAL offer from the club to the extent of the money suggested by Bain. Depends on who you believe though, right ?

 

You being serious ? So you are telling me that we should NEVER draw up a contract because there is ALWAYS a chance that a player wouldnt sign it - that is very weak in my opinion. Further, if it was required to "pay a lawyer to do so" then we really are in the shit because Rangers should have in-house lawyer/counsel who is more than adept at undertaking such function and for no more than the salary they get paid. FFS, contracts are one of the most important parts of the club so we really should have someone in-house dealing with them.

 

You cant be sure that Boyd was trying to disguise his mercenary nature. Can you ? Source please if you can. The reality is that it is far more likely that it is Boyd's word vs Bain's word - and you have chosen to side with Bain. Your prerogative but it certainly doesnt necessarily make it accurate. Bain wants to show the fans that they tried to keep Boyd - and so felt the need to point out how much was on offer. How do you know that he also wasnt trying to fool the fans ?

 

Re your comments about FF - I will refrain from commenting, as I always do, about FF because despite signing up a long time ago and despite receiving their newsletters I still cannot login - so I never know what is being said over there unless someone brings it back here. I would agree with you though in that people make their opinions known because of the type of people they are, NOT because of the particular forum they frequent. FF is the largest Bears forum online and therefore it really does stand to reason that it will have a far more diverse set of opinions - doesnt mean that FF is any less valuable or their members are any more of the "meathead" variety - just that it is far bigger numebrs wise and it stands to reason you will have an element who sit on the precipice of being "unique".

 

I wont debate your final paragraph because that IS what happened. But what IS open to debate is the motive behind it. You are looking at it in a very "black and white" sort of way. they way you are putting it is :

 

• Boyd walked for free to a championship club to get more money
  
• Boyd could have stayed and become very wealthy
  
• Boyd could have left and become very wealthy but made us 3 mill at the same time
  
• Boyd could have signed for a prem club

 

And all that is accurate.

 

However, there are a number of reasons why he may have stayed rather than left at that time. Some of those reasons could easily have been :

 

• One very simple one could have been that he hadnt won the league with Rangers. You never think that might have been a motivating factor for him ?
  
• He may have felt that things would turn financially for Rangers and he would get a better offer
  
• Also, when the club tried to sell him I dont think he had been offered a new contract. Maybe he had hopes they would.
  
• Maybe he didnt fancy the idea of moving to Birmingham
  

 

Again, there are a plethora of reasons why Boyd may not have moved to Birmingham at the time. But you are looking at it all with blinkers on and simply determining that he should have done what was right for the club. He has no obligation to the club whatsoever.

 

And when you consider the club wanted to sell him even when he wanted to stay just why should he ? If your employer tried to punt you to a different company would you feel any loyalty to them when someone else came in for you ? I doubt it.

[wabashcannonball 0]

Boydy is away for one simple reason, or in fact two, he crossed Wattie and Wattie never rated him in the first place, our loss.

[Guest Northampton_loyalist]

No, Boyd said that the offer was not rubber-stamped by the bank. That much Boyd came out and said. There was never any FORMAL offer from the club to the extent of the money suggested by Bain. Depends on who you believe though, right ?

 

You being serious ? So you are telling me that we should NEVER draw up a contract because there is ALWAYS a chance that a player wouldnt sign it - that is very weak in my opinion. Further, if it was required to "pay a lawyer to do so" then we really are in the shit because Rangers should have in-house lawyer/counsel who is more than adept at undertaking such function and for no more than the salary they get paid. FFS, contracts are one of the most important parts of the club so we really should have someone in-house dealing with them.

 

way to completely miss the point. Boyd says one thing, the club say another. The club were heavy in detail and Boyd countered NONE of it. The only thing he said is that there was no piece of paper infront of him so he didnt even know if it was sanctioned.

 

The point I was making is why the hell is it important to see a bit of paper? Boyd was offered a deal. Boyd turned the deal down. If he didnt think it was valid all he had to do was say 'yes' and wait for it to come or not. he didnt join boro until 2 months later so there would have been nothing lost. The reason for not drawing up the contract is not because of money or anything else. The player was asked, he said no. If he said yes then someone would have drawn up the contract. really very simple.

 

You cant be sure that Boyd was trying to disguise his mercenary nature. Can you ? Source please if you can. The reality is that it is far more likely that it is Boyd's word vs Bain's word - and you have chosen to side with Bain. Your prerogative but it certainly doesnt necessarily make it accurate. Bain wants to show the fans that they tried to keep Boyd - and so felt the need to point out how much was on offer. How do you know that he also wasnt trying to fool the fans ?

 

again ffs. bain went into detail of the offer. Boyd didnt contradict ANY of the details, not one. He said he didnt see it in writing so doesnt even know if it would be sanctioned. Why would he say that and allow lies about amounts to pass unchecked? Infact he complained that Bain had mentioned figures, not that they were wrong. The only possible avenue you have here is whether it was a genuine offer or not. That is up to you to decide.

 

Re your comments about FF - I will refrain from commenting, as I always do, about FF because despite signing up a long time ago and despite receiving their newsletters I still cannot login - so I never know what is being said over there unless someone brings it back here. I would agree with you though in that people make their opinions known because of the type of people they are, NOT because of the particular forum they frequent. FF is the largest Bears forum online and therefore it really does stand to reason that it will have a far more diverse set of opinions - doesnt mean that FF is any less valuable or their members are any more of the "meathead" variety - just that it is far bigger numebrs wise and it stands to reason you will have an element who sit on the precipice of being "unique".

 

all perfectly valid. Now, why is someone with the power to give warnings and who cries like a bitch about big bad FF able to comment on someone having an opinion purely because he posts over there? utterly pathetic.

 

I wont debate your final paragraph because that IS what happened. But what IS open to debate is the motive behind it. You are looking at it in a very "black and white" sort of way. they way you are putting it is :

 

• Boyd walked for free to a championship club to get more money
  
• Boyd could have stayed and become very wealthy
  
• Boyd could have left and become very wealthy but made us 3 mill at the same time
  
• Boyd could have signed for a prem club

 

And all that is accurate.

 

However, there are a number of reasons why he may have stayed rather than left at that time. Some of those reasons could easily have been :

 

• One very simple one could have been that he hadnt won the league with Rangers. You never think that might have been a motivating factor for him ?
  
• He may have felt that things would turn financially for Rangers and he would get a better offer
  
• Also, when the club tried to sell him I dont think he had been offered a new contract. Maybe he had hopes they would.
  
• Maybe he didnt fancy the idea of moving to Birmingham
  

 

Again, there are a plethora of reasons why Boyd may not have moved to Birmingham at the time. But you are looking at it all with blinkers on and simply determining that he should have done what was right for the club. He has no obligation to the club whatsoever.

 

And when you consider the club wanted to sell him even when he wanted to stay just why should he ? If your employer tried to punt you to a different company would you feel any loyalty to them when someone else came in for you ? I doubt it.

 

Again, that is all fine. You have an opinion, I have an opinion. I cant express mine withoput people telling me Im acting like a tim, DESPITE you not being able to counter ANY of my points with anything other than opinion......

 

 

again, I have the bad attitude

 

I expressed an opinion and backed it up. I didnt comment on what kind of behaviour i think anyone is displaying or anything else. So, Fuck it, really really not worth continuing the chat. Some people want to sit in their little bubble, anyone with a differing opinion is a teague or twisted and thats the end of it.

 

 

Pathietic indeed

[craig 5,199]

I have cut it down to there for no other reason than so the next post is easier on the eye.

 

 

Where did I say Boyd was duty bound to look out for the club? The thrust, the entire thrust infact, of your point is that Boyd owes the club nothing and is free to do as he pleases. That is fine.

 

 

I dont see it that way myself.

 

It is not the fact that he should have done anything, it is the fact that the club he proffesses to love figured not one tiny iota in his thinking. the actions he took were absolutely and undenyably the worst possible for the club he supports. The ONLY factor in his mind was how much cash HE could make.

 

 

You clearly have no problem with that but I am watching my club founder in deep financail trouble and have seen a guy leave for nothing, to a WORSE club than Brum, in a WORSE league than Brum and all for a few more quid.

 

If he had no options then fine, if the options were worse, again fine. He had a better club in a beter league on a plate and he chose to leave for a shitey club to earn HIM more cash.

 

 

To make it worse, he was offered �£18k per week in the off season and �£4k per game played for the club he 'loves'. That puts him on �£26k per week when we have a wednesday game, and we have plenty of those.

 

What THAT leaves us with is that Boyd left for a worse club in a worse league for a small amount more money when he could have stayed and earnt great money or left for better and earned the club a few million when we need it most. You see no problem with a Rangers fan acting that way, I do.

 

 

 

 

I will refer you now to the previous post I made. The attitude on here has been a fucking disgrace. I made no comment on other peoples thoughts and have several times stated that you are free to think as you please. I have also stated that I can see the point you are making.

 

In return I have been told it is because of another site I post on, because I am warped and that I am acting like a tim.

 

Despite that you all see some avenue for attacking other websites? for attacking posters from other websites? Utterly pathetic and frankly disgraceful. Nothing short of hypocritical nonesense from people who bitch and moan about what is said in a place they claim to not care about yet manage to ape the traits they hate so well.

 

 

If I choose to think that Boyd can kiss my arse (ALL I have said, not go fuck himself or any other nonesense) then that is my call and I will, as my first post clearly shows, explain my reasoning and debate with anyone who disagrees. Instead I am offered nothing (until you, in fairness) but pathetic 'you are from FF' and yeah but Ellis.....' comments and a warning fro calling someone a cunt when no such thing was said.

 

 

Parochial bullshit and exactly what places like this moan about in other places.

 

I am enjoying the debate NL. Loving it in fact. So let me get things right first - I didnt say you were acting like a Tim, if it came across that way then apologies. The vitriol that SA posted from FF is what is more "Tim-like" in my opinion, not what you are saying. As I said, I havent seen what was posted on there so cant comment but more than likely that debate also has others who are defending Boyd so it probably isnt all one-sided - would be very surprised if it was to be honest.

 

Surely by suggesting he should have been looking out for the club is similar to saying he was duty bound ? If not then the debae kind of ends there does it not because if you dont think he was duty bound to look out for the club then he simply doesnt have to look out for the club, which he didnt and then we can all agree that he was at liberty to do as he chooses - which he did, and signed for Middlesborough. Simples.

 

You are right though in that I have absolutely no problem with the actions Boyd took. None whatsoever and here is why.... If the club really wanted him to stay they should not have been waiting till the final 6 months of his tenure before offering him a deal. That much is simple. Players you want to retain should never be left until that point in their tenure before being offered - the club should have been offering an extension long before. They didnt, so why no abuse towards those who offer contracts at Rangers. Further, the club tried to punt him - so why should he think about them ? It is a BUSINESS, we all know that. Also, why should he move to Birmingham ? Maybe he didnt fancy it and preferred to stay closer to home. Lets not forget, after all, that he was allegedly offered TWICE as much money to go to Turkey - so maybe it wasn't all about money after all, just a thought.

 

Hey, MY club are floundering in financial turmoil too. NL, we ALL want what is best for Rangers and I, for one, would have wished Boyd had signed a new contract, stayed for a season and then left for a fee. But it didnt happen and you cannot argue that Boyd is not the person that put us in that position. Sure, he could have helped a bit by leaving last January.... but would we have won the league and the CL money that went with it ? Would we have won the league this season and the CL money that goes with it ? We will never know, but Boyd POTENTIALLY actually made us more money than he cost us by staying at Rangers for a further 18 months. None of us know but it is something we have to at least consider.

 

I also dont understand why Boyd should go to Brum just because they play in a better league. If he wants to move for financial reasons that is his choosing and who are we to criticise. Even in our own walks of life PLENTY of people will move jobs primarily for monetary reasons, so why shouldnt he ? I dont think he chose the right club and he lacked ambition with that signing - but it is his choice to make and if he wants money to be his tin god then so be it.

 

I am not convinced that your "26k a week" statement isnt flawed. with 4k a game played he want going to be playing every game - so whilst it could have been 26k a week IF he played in both a Sat and Wed game it also could have been "only" 18k a week if he was selected for neither game. What is he on at Boro ? 27k ? That is 9k a week more GUARANTEED (assuming his 27k a week is not based on appearances). So, sure, it COULD have been 26k a week but hardly guaranteed.

 

Also, were Birmingham back in for him this summer ? I dont know, genuine question. But comparing Brum with Boro is only relevant it both were in for him this summer. Last Jan he could have moved to Brum - but maybe he thought if he played well enough he could get an even better club to sign for. Then he finds out this summer that he misjudged what would be on offer to him. Not saying that IS the case but it could be. And to compare the offer from Brum in Jan 2009 to the offer from Boro in July 2010 is only relevant if both were still in for him. Were they ? How was he to know that by turning down Brum last year that there wouldnt be the same interest from EPL clubs this year ?

 

Maybe it is me but I feel that "Boyd can kiss my arse" is effectively the same as saying "Boyd can go fuck himself" - is it really not the same thing and is this not arguing semantics ?

 

Re the "acting like a Tim" - I said it is behaviour I would expect from a Tim - and it is, I wont say otherwise because, rightly or wrongly, I DO expect better from Bears. Let me state, I dont mean what YOU are saying NL, but some of those comments that SA posted, which came from FF.

 

As for the FF thing - as I said, I agree, it isnt FF that is posting those things, it is members from FF and being the largest fans forum the whole spectrum of attitude will no doubt be covered !

 

As Gav says, we really shouldnt care that much about Boyd, Thomson anyway - they are no longer our players so why would we wish them to do poorly ?

 

Why was there not the same furore over Lovenkrands when he did the same thing as Boyd ? Just because finances were slightly better then ? Why did he get a heroes reception today ?

 

Roll on the new season I say

[Tannochsidebear 2,321]

Boydy is away for one simple reason, or in fact two, he crossed Wattie and Wattie never rated him in the first place, our loss.

 

 

This is my take on it also. Boyd could have stayed, probably wanted to stay, but didnt want another year of watching Miller Naismith and perhaps even Lafferty playing in CL games with him on the bench, but being asked to provide the goals to win the title again.

 

Watty didnt rate him enough to play him in the biggest games, so the big man left.

 

It is indeed our loss IMO, but I bear him no ill, just disappointed it couldnt have been sorted out.

 

KT is different because he is not, was not, and will never be, a bear, and therefore was always going to move on at about this time IMO. I was not the least surprised to see him go, and am still amazed at the amount that thought he was captain material or a real bluenose.

[craig 5,199]

way to completely miss the point. Boyd says one thing, the club say another. The club were heavy in detail and Boyd countered NONE of it. The only thing he said is that there was no piece of paper infront of him so he didnt even know if it was sanctioned.

 

The point I was making is why the hell is it important to see a bit of paper? Boyd was offered a deal. Boyd turned the deal down. If he didnt think it was valid all he had to do was say 'yes' and wait for it to come or not. he didnt join boro until 2 months later so there would have been nothing lost. The reason for not drawing up the contract is not because of money or anything else. The player was asked, he said no. If he said yes then someone would have drawn up the contract. really very simple.

 

Regardless. Boyd was under no obligation to sign a contract with us. None whatsoever. Even if we offered him 100k a week he was under no obligation. And it is still his choice as to who he signs for. So what exactly is the point we are arguing here ?

 

 

again ffs. bain went into detail of the offer. Boyd didnt contradict ANY of the details, not one. He said he didnt see it in writing so doesnt even know if it would be sanctioned. Why would he say that and allow lies about amounts to pass unchecked? Infact he complained that Bain had mentioned figures, not that they were wrong. The only possible avenue you have here is whether it was a genuine offer or not. That is up to you to decide.

 

Do you know who is pulling the strings at Rangers ? Can Bain offer contracts or does it have to be approved by the bank ? Again, genuine question, I dont know. If it is the latter then Boyd saying that he didnt have a formal contract could be a valid concern for him. If he was NEVER given a formal written offer then he was never given an offer.

 

You say the only avenue I have is whether the offer is genuine or not and that may be the case. But that is a VERY BIG part of it wouldnt you say ? We can debate the value of contract all day long but you are deciding you believe Bain (which is fair enough) but who is to say that is accurate.

 

OK, we will agree that the numbers discussed are accurate. So what ? If there was no formal offer then those numbers could have been anything and still meant nothing.

 

 

all perfectly valid. Now, why is someone with the power to give warnings and who cries like a bitch about big bad FF able to comment on someone having an opinion purely because he posts over there? utterly pathetic.

 

SA will have to answer for himself on that one I am afraid. Personally I see every poster as having their own opinion and the opinion they bring to Gersnet is their own, not one from FF, RM, RST, the Assembly etc etc unless posting as representatives of those organisations.

 

 

Again, that is all fine. You have an opinion, I have an opinion. I cant express mine withoput people telling me Im acting like a tim, DESPITE you not being able to counter ANY of my points with anything other than opinion......

 

Correct, I am countering your points with opinion. But then....are the points you are suggesting not also merely YOUR opinion ? Have you sat down with Boyd and asked him his reasons for leaving Rangers ? Unless and until you do then him leaving and costing the club 3 mill purposely is only your opinion.

 

 

again, I have the bad attitude

Hmmmm, where do I say that ? Or are you just generally saying that anyone arguing against your opinion is saying you have a bad attitude ? Any "bad attitude" comments I made were about the things being said about Boyd and Thomson (from what SA posted) - not what you posted, other than the "Boyd can kiss my arse" comment of course.

 

I expressed an opinion and backed it up. I didnt comment on what kind of behaviour i think anyone is displaying or anything else. So, Fuck it, really really not worth continuing the chat. Some people want to sit in their little bubble, anyone with a differing opinion is a teague or twisted and thats the end of it.

 

 

Pathietic indeed

 

Sorry but are you saying that I am being pathetic ? Fuck me NL, I am actually making an effort to debate this with you and you are telling me that I am suggesting you have a bad attitude. I am NOT. Show me where I say that - you cant.

 

My post which you quoted and responded to was, in my opinion, respectful. You then suggest it wasnt and that it is not worth continuing. Fair enough.

 

It looks more to me like because I am not agreeing with your opinion on Boyd and his motives that you are throwing the toys out of the pram. Again, fair enough.

 

I am/was enjoying the debate but your last wee diatribe there makes it less appealing to continue to do so.

[craig 5,199]

This is my take on it also. Boyd could have stayed, probably wanted to stay, but didnt want another year of watching Miller Naismith and perhaps even Lafferty playing in CL games with him on the bench, but being asked to provide the goals to win the title again.

 

Watty didnt rate him enough to play him in the biggest games, so the big man left.

 

It is indeed our loss IMO, but I bear him no ill, just disappointed it couldnt have been sorted out.

 

KT is different because he is not, was not, and will never be, a bear, and therefore was always going to move on at about this time IMO. I was not the least surprised to see him go, and am still amazed at the amount that thought he was captain material or a real bluenose.

 

Dont let common sense and logic get in the way of NL and me debating :devil:

[wabashcannonball 0]

Boyd going stops at the door of Smith, end of.