Annan 0 - 0 Rangers (FT)

[GovanAllan 0]

The impression by the press at the time was that Celtic played good football while we won the league through strength. Maybe you don't remember.

 

Don't remember Wimbledon been renowned for great fooball during their most successful years... Wasn't Smith criticised on here for getting to the UEFA final with "awful" football.

 

I remember Falkirk being praised for good football under Yogi, they were relegated.

 

I don't go for arbitrary connections that don't agree with the real world.

 

 

 

I never said that, but you do have a task to do - getting it done is the most important bit, getting it done to spare and with style is a bonus. If Ally wins the league by 10 points or more does that mean he's set the bar and gets your approval? One of our most famous title wins was by goal difference, did we just make do?

 

I'm really struggling with your logic.

 

 

 

What childish bit? I don't recall saying I know anything about you - bar what you write on here. All I did was interpret what you said yourself.

 

I give up, you just don't see it do you, you are happy for your team to scrap by just as long as they win the occasional trophy ever year. I claim you can win and play football worth watching the two are connected. What is it about that concept that is so alien to you?

 

As for the height of this bar, your the one trying to work out how many games we can lose and draw but still win Div3 if that isn't craziest thing I've heard from a Rangers fan in my 42 years on this planet I don't know what is.

 

You used Arsenal as a comparison for good football but no trophies who would want that you claim, I think you will find The Emirates was packed at the weekend so obviously having good football to watch does make a difference.

 

I notice you didn't want to back up your Waddell claim that Rangers only play big strong boys. that actually made me laugh and just shows exactly what you know about Rangers and football in general IMO.

 

I remember the Celtic team you talk about and The Rangers team, I don't need a paper to remind me about it I was watching it home and away and If Celtic were that bloody good do think we beat them just because we had a bit of dig about us, get a grip of yourself and stop reading the papers it's melting your mind.

[GovanAllan 0]

The most recent example of playing good football & winning nothing is Arsenal!!! cracking team, with cracking players...yet a VERY empty trophy cabinet.

 

Playing silky football means absolutely nothing if your not winning - whether that is a single game, cup competitions of the league. Priority No.1 in football is to win the match. Do that often enough & you win leagues & cups. Doing it with flair & finesse is nothing but a bonus. Fans love to see good entertaining football, but what would the reaction be like if we played great football, but didn't get out of Div3???

 

Secure the result 1st & foremost....worry about how you did it later!!!

 

So you thnk the two cant go hand in hand, you can't play good football and win at the same time?

 

Need to tell Barca and the rest they've got the concept all wrong and they've been wasting their time.

 

Have we become so conditioned to watching crap football at Rangers just as long as we win a trophy that all else is thrown out the window, we have the breathing space to really start something at Ibrox that will last for generations but all we seem to be interested in is winning a bit of silverware while the football on show is killing the game.

 

It's the saddest attitude I've ever came across really really sad.

[der Berliner 3,264]

Then why go to the bother of comparing Rangers with Wimbledon in the first place?

 

I did not read it as a comparison between Wimbledon and Rangers. People can probably whip up dozens of examples for teams playing "bad football" but winning titles, and teams playing good football, yet winning nothing. Just ask Bayern last season. They usually play good football, essentially mauled Chelsea in the CL final, yet won not a single trophy last season. The reasons are numerous in each case, but at the end of the day - no great arguing about this IMHO - people will rather accept trophies at the end of the season instead of great football entertainment. IF they can get both, i.e. trophies and good football, even better. That though only goes hand in hand on occasion and mostly not throughout a whole campaign.

 

We should expect certain standards from any player wearing the blue jersey. Yet, we also have to remember that many of our current squad, be they internationals* or not, would have been regarded as sub-Rangers standard only months ago. Add to that a bunch of youngsters and a handful of Rangers veterans. Many of our players come to a club of high expectations, yet into a league that will make it enormously difficult to a) play good football and b) get a good result. And I'm not talking up the standard of the 3rd Division here, just saying that playing against a stubborn wall of hammer-throwers is not as easily done as it sounds. At the end of the day, it is a game of 11 men against 11 men, one bunch of them enjoy the cup-final of their lifes. I sure want and expect to see our folk come out on top each and every week against any 3rd Divi side. Still, I also accept that we need to gel the team we have and have them cope with this rather different approach by the opposition. And to overcome that, I do not mind if we play bad football or entertainment football.

 

*Internationals for Northern Ireland and Scotland ... who not exactly setting the world of football afire of late, do they?

Edited September 18, 2012 by der Berliner

[Darthter 542]

So you thnk the two cant go hand in hand, you can't play good football and win at the same time?

 

Never said that.....

 

The point you are making is that if we play good football, we will dominate the domestic game. Myself & others are simply pointing out that this isn't always the case. We all want to see good football on display & win trophies, but with the quality of players available, the general quality of football in this country and the general mentality of teams/fan means that combining the two is unlikely.

 

You just need to compare the way the game is played across the border....players are generally given more time on the ball to pick passes etc. At times it seem that the pitch is twice the size of ours given the amount of space available to players. This allows the game to flow a lot better and allows players to play.

 

Also, look at the mentality of the fans....McCoist draws a match & the fans are complaining and looking for his head. Imagine how it would be if he was regularly losing matches (but playing decent football)....he would be forced out in no time at all.

[GovanAllan 0]

Never said that.....

 

The point you are making is that if we play good football, we will dominate the domestic game. Myself & others are simply pointing out that this isn't always the case. We all want to see good football on display & win trophies, but with the quality of players available, the general quality of football in this country and the general mentality of teams/fan means that combining the two is unlikely.

 

You just need to compare the way the game is played across the border....players are generally given more time on the ball to pick passes etc. At times it seem that the pitch is twice the size of ours given the amount of space available to players. This allows the game to flow a lot better and allows players to play.

 

Also, look at the mentality of the fans....McCoist draws a match & the fans are complaining and looking for his head. Imagine how it would be if he was regularly losing matches (but playing decent football)....he would be forced out in no time at all.

 

I'm starting to lose the will to live here, remember where we are playing Div 3 not EPL, LaLiga or Bundesliga we have the breathing space to build a way of playing the game that wins and entertains. If we lose a couple while trying to get this system flowing then so be it, I can live with that because we are trying to accomplish something there's a goal to aim for and as Calscot has eloquently pointed out we can afford to lose a fair few points and still win this league at a canter. But to lose points while just going through the same old routine of crap football what's the point in that we arent moving forward as a team we are just stuck in the crap cycle again and again.

 

I can't believe you think we can't play good football because everybody else plays crap football in this country that's a cop out of the highest order we have players capable of playing at a far higher standard if they are coached right.

 

I want to go through this nightmare we find ourselves in with something to show for it and I mean not just some silverware that we should win with our eyes closed. But a way of playing great entertaining football if Gretna could rattle through these leagues while showing a bit of style and playing good football why oh why can't we.

Edited September 18, 2012 by GovanAllan

[calscot 0]

Then why go to the bother of comparing Rangers with Wimbledon in the first place?

 

The comparison is to do with the fact that "nice" football is not always successful football and sometimes "ugly" football is successful. There is no huge correlation between "prettiness" and success or cause and effect that some people like to think there is. I thought my point was pretty obvious.

[calscot 0]

I think we all agree that you can play good football and win and we all want that the most, however some of realise that playing good football to win is not always possible. I can't remember Barcelona playing good football against us the last time.

 

Some people also recognise that you have to set your priorities and focus on your goals. The goal is to win the game, not play pretty football. If you focus on pretty football you may succeed (although that is far easier said than done) but you are then missing the task of winning the game.

 

I think the most obvious example of this is Tony Mowbray at Celtic (which seems to have been ignored) who came saying he was going to get Celtic back to playing good football. He concentrated on that, against teams with far less resources, and completely failed to win the title against a manager who was slagged off for his ugly football. The funny thing is that I don't remember Celtic playing much nice football at all.

 

The thing is, every manager wants his team to go on the pitch and play wonderful football and winning comprehensively, all the players want that too. People are completely making stuff up like, “McCoist is ordering the players to hoof the ball at every opportunity”. Not only is this not even happening, it’s incredibly unlikely that Ally has told them this. He probably wants them to mostly keep it on the ground and put in the odd long ball to mix things up. However, when a defender is under pressure, one of his instincts is to hoof it to safety and when midfielders are frustrated by a park the bus defence and the clock is ticking down, they resort to the long ball just to get it forward.

 

It happens at every level but the lower down you go in the skill ranks, the more likely the players will do this.

[GovanAllan 0]

Right Cal, yes you will get beat playing entertaining football, the same way you will get beat playing crap boring win at all costs football or have we went unbeaten in the last umpteen years. The difference is my team may have been beaten but they where playing the game the way it's meant to be played and entertaining the fans, and you will win more games playing high tempo pass and move football because other teams won't be able to live with you.

 

As for Mowbray are you really going to use him has an example of good football went bad, none of Mowbarys teams have ever played good football.

 

As for Ally not telling his team to play the long punt all the time I'm sure your right (I hope). So can you please tell me if he didn't tell them to play that way why does he seem incapable of stopping them doing it?

 

I would also like to point out Peterhead & Berwick (havent seen the Annan game yet) never parked the bus both played ball on the deck quick passing football which should've won them the game and only a flukey last minute winner and a shocking referee decision stopped them.

 

I just don't understand your reluctance to at least look for your team to entertain you no matter the result as you keep telling me, we will win this league.

Edited September 18, 2012 by GovanAllan

[der Berliner 3,264]

“McCoist is ordering the players to hoof the ball at every opportunity”

 

This makes me smile. You do not want to have your defenders doing fancy footwork (well, some do, if the defenders have the ability), so the get the ball away in the easiest way. Preferrably hoof them back up the park for your own players to chase them. I would say Perry is one of those, while Cribari and Argyriou have the ability to play themselves out of trouble. I do not mind what they do, as long as they effectivly clear the lines.

On the other hand, if we have tall boys with aerial power up front, like McCulloch or Kyle, hoofing the ball up to them is a very legitimate way to play to these guys' strengths.

 

Preferrably, would should utilize decent footwork and simply "hoofing" tactics to the best outcome on the park - pending on our players and the opposition's style of play. The way it has become vogue to name any clearance or attempt to get one of our strikers into action as "hoofing" and "sub-standard football" ... and the future of our game is taking it a touch or two too far.

[GovanAllan 0]

I have to say this thread has become so depressing as to how some of us want to see and think the game of football should be played.

 

Thank God there's some people out there who have a very different attitude as to who a great and very simple game should be played, long may their voice be heard above the mediocrity of crap we have to endure when watching most of today's football.