Reconstruction talk tweets

[craig 5,199]

A complete overhaul of what we get dished up in Scotland is needed quickly.

 

ONE body running all the clubs for a start.

 

How about a 16-16-10 with no 'splits' - clubs meet once at home and once away, except in the 3rd division where they'll play each other 4 times as usual.

This will mean 30 league games for the 1st and 2nd divisions 36 for the 3rd division. THREE to get relegated from the 1st division and the fourth bottom side meets the side finishing fourth in the 2nd division in a play-off

 

Relegation from the 2nd division could have 1 down and 1 play-off.

 

Okay, this would mean there will only be 30 league games for the top league clubs but we could re-vamp the League Cup to make up for it, using the same format as the 'UEFA European Football Championship'.

We could 'invite' three clubs on merit say Gala Fairydean, Petershill Juniors and somebody else to join the current 42. We'd have nine groups of five (seeded in pots 1 to 5, based on performance) playing each other home and away. Nine group winners qualify for Quarter-Finals along with seven best runners-up.

 

This will guarantee all clubs at least 8 more games. Right!!! More boring games I hear you say. Why not give it a try at least? We need to do something that's different from the current mess that is Scottish Fitba'.

 

You had me until you suggested Petershill to get an invite.... why would THEY get an invite ? If ANY Junior team got an invite it would HAVE to be Auchinleck Talbot (YES, I AM biased) as THE most successful junior team EVER, bar none. On top of that Talbot are 6 points clear of Petershill in the West Super league despite having played FOUR games left - the only way Petershill can win the league is if Talbot lose ALL of their remaining 6 league games with a negative goal difference of 14.... highly unlikely.

 

On a slightly more serious note.... 30 league games would be the killer but I do agree we need to somehow get to a simple home and away scenario again.

[craig 5,199]

we tried the mini groups format in the league cup back in the mid 70s and it died a slow, lingering and painful death because nobody cared.

It's hard enough to care about the league cup in a knockout format but the mini leagues?

 

Man , shoot me now then bring back the three day week, Suzie Quatro and power cuts.

 

How about an 14 team league, play each other twice. = 26 games

Split into two 7s, play each other twice. = 12 games,

top 2 places go to the CL

3rd spot to UEFA Cup

 

or top team to CL, second to Uefa Cup, playoff for remaining Euro spot

2 relegated

1 play-off relegation spot for third bottom team / third top in first div

 

 

This gives you your 38 games.

It gives the great bulk of teams an interest all the way up to the split.

It gives everyone in the top half something to fight for

3 relegation places will give everyone something to play for right up until the end.

It increases the number of different teams we play

It results in a better spread of money through the game.

 

It means that every game, for every team will be meaningful.

 

The split is partly what is killing the game in my opinion. The only real change you have suggested is increasing the league from 12 to 14 - the rest of it is absolutely no different to what we currently have. There also is absolutely no guarantee that every game, for every team, would be meaningful. By increasing the league by 2 teams you potentially simply have an additional two teams languishing at the bottom of the league and given where Dundee are there is nothiing for any of the bottom 6 teams to play for, effectively.

[Gribz 743]

It doesnt matter if it is 16-10-16 or 14-14-14 or 12-12-18. What is needed is interest and competition.

 

Firstly the 2 things that must happen are 1 overseeing body running the game and the restructure back to 3 leagues. Having 4 is just a joke and has killed the SFL IMO until Rangers got there.

 

Lets take the 12-12-18. To generate interest and competition that means a 2 up / 2 down and a play off for a 3rd place. The interest has to be taken from 3rd place in the SPL downwards. Once we are back in the top flight the league is a 2 way break away anyway between the OF and that race takes care of itself. Let the others battle out the Euro places and relegation.

 

In the lower 2 divisions Div1 will be interesting as there will be a at least 5 clubs going for 3 promotion spots (1 via the play off) and the relegation battle will be the same as SPL.

 

In the lowest div (say 18 teams) you create a English Championship style league where the top 2 go up and the next 4 places battle it out for the final play off spot versus the 3rd bottom side in the middle tier. That keeps interest going for most of the 18 teams.

The bottom 1 or 2 teams of this league has a play off against a junior side to keep their place in the SFL.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Gribz

[The Real PapaBear 0]

"the only real change is adding two teams"?

 

well, that and relegating two instead of one...oh, and adding a relegation play-off....oh, and adding play-offs for the second Uefa cup spot. You mean no change apart from those 3 fundamental changes?

 

You'd have 7 teams in the bottom split fighting to avoid 3 relegation spots.

You'd have 7 teams in the top, 2 going for the title, the remaining 5 going for 2 Uefa cup spots.

*Every* game for every team would be meaningful.

 

Everybody agrees the playoffs in England have given a huge boost the the Championship and leagues 1+2, because it means more team are playing for something for longer into the season. In scotland, the winners are going to be us or them - we know that before the season starts; with one team getting relegated it usually means that, at most, two of the bottom 6 have meaningful games.

 

Nobody yet has given me a reason why the split is a bad thing and how it's damaging the game.

[craig 5,199]

"the only real change is adding two teams"?

 

well, that and relegating two instead of one...oh, and adding a relegation play-off....oh, and adding play-offs for the second Uefa cup spot. You mean no change apart from those 3 fundamental changes?

 

You'd have 7 teams in the bottom split fighting to avoid 3 relegation spots.

You'd have 7 teams in the top, 2 going for the title, the remaining 5 going for 2 Uefa cup spots.

*Every* game for every team would be meaningful.

 

Everybody agrees the playoffs in England have given a huge boost the the Championship and leagues 1+2, because it means more team are playing for something for longer into the season. In scotland, the winners are going to be us or them - we know that before the season starts; with one team getting relegated it usually means that, at most, two of the bottom 6 have meaningful games.

 

Nobody yet has given me a reason why the split is a bad thing and how it's damaging the game.

 

If the additional two teams end up adrift at the bottom of the table then the additional relegation spot means nothing, it will just be a team bouncing up and down each season - although, that said, there is a danger of that anyway.

 

But it seems you missed part of what I was saying... the split is killing the game as it is because it is farcical. So why continue to have the split ? The teams from 4th to 8th will probably (though not guaranteed) have nothing to play for, similar to what happened to Dundee Utd and Killie this season.

 

Play offs agreed would be a decent change, but that is already on the cards as we know.

 

Who would play off for the UEFA spot ?

 

One big problem with your idea is that given an 11-1 vote is needed.... which SPL teams are going to vote for possibly THREE teams being relegated each season ? Turkeys dont vote for Christmas.... well, not unless it is t ostick the knife into Rangers......

 

As for the split not being a farce, or not damaging the game - if your idea for the UEFA play off spot extends beyond the top couple of teams then the farce comes into play negatively. If you had, say, teams from 3rd to 6th - then the team that finished 8th with a further SEVEN games to play cant qualify, despite potentially finishing the pre-split season on the SAME points as the team in 6th.... That would make it a farce in my opinion.

Edited May 1, 2013 by craig

[Gribz 743]

The split is pointless at the moment as nothing comes of it. Dundee were gone before the split this season. If it were 2 teams going down it would be great games this season as there is nothing between the next 5 teams. The crowds at the games last weeked between the bottom 6 were even more awful than they had been all season as there is nothing to play for, had they been fighting to avoid the 2nd relegation spot there could have been double the attendances.

 

Its all to do with the number relegation places which create more competitiveness and interest.

[The Real PapaBear 0]

If the additional two teams end up adrift at the bottom of the table then the additional relegation spot means nothing, it will just be a team bouncing up and down each season - although, that said, there is a danger of that anyway.

 

*if* the two additional teams end up adrift (and there's absolutely no evidence to indicate they would) then you still have the teams above them fighting to avoid the relegation play off place. So, unlike the current situation where you usually have one team whose out of it, Dunfermline or Dundee, and the rest playing for nothing, with my idea you have at least three of the 7 fighting to avoid the drop - and possibly all 7 involved.

 

But it seems you missed part of what I was saying... the split is killing the game as it is because it is farcical. So why continue to have the split ? The teams from 4th to 8th will probably (though not guaranteed) have nothing to play for, similar to what happened to Dundee Utd and Killie this season.

 

Under my system, with a play off for the second UEFA cup spot, you have at least 5 of the seven teams playing for something at all times, and possibly all seven playing for something.

 

Play offs agreed would be a decent change, but that is already on the cards as we know.

 

Who would play off for the UEFA spot ?

 

Fourth and fifth. Third gets an automatic place. Or if we only have one CL spot, then second gets the Uefa place automatically and third&fourth have a play-off.

 

One big problem with your idea is that given an 11-1 vote is needed.... which SPL teams are going to vote for possibly THREE teams being relegated each season ? Turkeys dont vote for Christmas.... well, not unless it is t ostick the knife into Rangers......

 

a) this idea is based on there not being a Members Only Club of an SPL and b) we're just shooting the breeze here. It isn't actually going to happen - it's far too good and sensible a suggestion to ever see the light of day.

 

As for the split not being a farce, or not damaging the game - if your idea for the UEFA play off spot extends beyond the top couple of teams then the farce comes into play negatively. If you had, say, teams from 3rd to 6th - then the team that finished 8th with a further SEVEN games to play cant qualify, despite potentially finishing the pre-split season on the SAME points as the team in 6th.... That would make it a farce in my opinion.

 

Following that logic, the (highly successful and universally applauded) play-offs in England are also a farce. When the team that finishes 6th can get promotion to the division above.

 

The Defense rests, m'laud.

[Blue Moon 1,113]

"the only real change is adding two teams"?

 

well, that and relegating two instead of one...oh, and adding a relegation play-off....oh, and adding play-offs for the second Uefa cup spot. You mean no change apart from those 3 fundamental changes?

 

You'd have 7 teams in the bottom split fighting to avoid 3 relegation spots.

You'd have 7 teams in the top, 2 going for the title, the remaining 5 going for 2 Uefa cup spots.

*Every* game for every team would be meaningful.

 

Everybody agrees the playoffs in England have given a huge boost the the Championship and leagues 1+2, because it means more team are playing for something for longer into the season. In scotland, the winners are going to be us or them - we know that before the season starts; with one team getting relegated it usually means that, at most, two of the bottom 6 have meaningful games.

 

Nobody yet has given me a reason why the split is a bad thing and how it's damaging the game.

 

I hate the split because it means playing teams 4 times and the product is stale because of that. That is why fans are leaving football. It also keeps more of the money in the same group of clubs year after year, making it difficult for other clubs to break into the top 6. Stalemate.

[Gribz 743]

Another stupidity with the split is on a few occassions some teams have ended up having to travel to some away grounds 3 times while only playing that team once at home. They cant even get the balance right!!

[der Berliner 3,247]

On a sidenote, the main problem for making the "SPL" competetive and attractive is obviously the existence of a couple of all-too powerful teams (for decades) with no real and continuous challenger and no real incentive for many teams playing for something once the top two and three have "virtually" been decided. A look at the SPL shows that teams ranked 6 to 10 have nothing to play for, even after the split. Which may not be the case every year, but essentially has been since the split was intodruced. Apart from the farce that the team ranked lowest in the top 6 might have less points then the top (two) in the lower 6.

 

Now, the problem at the top is that once the title is being decided (and you'd reckon that by "law of quality" it will stay in Glasgow for some time) the chances of the rest of the top tier teams to play for something of real value drops considerably. Sure, lure of CL football for Motherwell and Europa League Football for ICT and St. Johnstone right now is there, but all three teams will have to pass a number of qualifying rounds - most likely against teams that are halfway through their summer season by then - and chances are that they will bow out quickly. As we have seen so often in the past. Thus, from that recent experience, will the lure of the foreign adventure hold soo much drawing power? With many of these teams not even able to hold unto their "star" players and are about to lose dozens as freebies?

 

IMHO, the reconstrcution should start at UEFA level, with the champions going straight into the CL group phase, with at least one more possible qualifier ... from each member country. Yes, the champions of Malta and Albania will face routs every now and then, but the money they will get from UEFA should also be relayed into the league, not just the club, so the association as a whole benefits from this.

Likewise, one set EL participant from each country, be that the cup winner or the 2nd placed team in the league. Plus at least one team able to qualify. To make up the numbers, give the high ups in the UEFA rankings more places.

 

Right now, e.g. Germany gets 3 direct entries to the CL, 1 more team may qualify. 2 more teams get straight into the Europa League. So that is 6 teams out of 18 who play for something up top, while 3 places at the bottom are contested against relegation. A third of all places in the league. By comparrison, the 12-team SPL has a better standing, as 4 teams may challenge for Europe, while 1 goes down. 5 out of 12. The problem is that the top remains in the grip of the Glasgow teams, while you usually get that one team doomed for Divi 1 decided well before the split. Thus, as we have seen for years, those teams in the middle are often left with meaningless games, much more so than in Germany, where the quality is more spread, e.g. on MD 31+, any team from 4th to 11th may still hope for European football. 14th to 17th may still face drop to BL 2 or that dreaded relegation play-off. Whether that "1 or 2 down plus one relegation play-off" scenario will enhance the competition of the Scottish game? I don't know whether Divi 1 has enough potential to provide challengers for the top tier on a continual basis, though it would sure enhance competition down there as well.

 

Obviously, that is only a solution for the top (two) tiers. The rest need some sort of competitivness-upgrade too (which is easily been forgotten), and obviously more money to attract people to the game as such and develope them into footballers.

 

Essentially, while it all looks simply on a first glance, it gets complicated in finer detail. I actually liked the idea of the Ramsden Cup for the SFL alone. Why not e.g. hand those teams that don't make it for Europe (e.g. 5th and 6th, or EL drop outs) some entry into an Anglo-Scottish Cup or British Cup with teams from Wales and Northern Ireland, some invited from England too (as the EPL would laugh that off, but some Championship teams may fancy their chances for Silverware). Nothing grand on face value, but sure able to attract some more people and perhaps getting a bit media coverage and sponsorship. Or scrap the League Cup altogether and make an All British Challenge Cup for teams outwith the top tier in England and Scotland. Give the game a fresh breeze.