Father and Son banned from Rangers matches in UK

[Ser Barristan Selmy 222]

William and Billy . Wonder if they post on forums with 1690 in their name as well.

[Cotter 0]

They could argue that if they were singing the billy boys they were simply stating fact.....

[andy steel 0]

Great sarcasm Andy, but in all seriousness what do people actually expect if they take their family on a train journey on a Saturday when almost every main train route in the UK, Europe and beyond has football fans on the way to their team's match or on the way home from it?

 

If anyone feels strongly about not wanting their kids subjected to big bad football fans and their naughty chants or songs on a Saturday, the smart move might be to not travel by train on a Saturday.

 

Furthermore, parents who object to football songs on a train because of the presence of children should thank their lucky stars that they don't live in one of the many countries where there's crackpots running up and down trains with machetes every other Saturday.

 

<shrug> What can I say that I haven't bored you with before? I love the club, but what goes with that is the duty to represent the club in a proper fashion in public. So you'll understand when I get mighty pissed off at people who metaphorically put a Rangers shirt on a manky train carriage floor and pish all over it.

 

I dunno. Probably it's me that is over sensitive. But to say we should put up with anti-social behaviour because Rwanda's genocide was worse (or wherever you're referring to)....or to tell people that they should stay at home because Rangers fans are about...that's just giving into to the lowlifes!

[The Real PapaBear 0]

Great sarcasm Andy, but in all seriousness what do people actually expect if they take their family on a train journey on a Saturday when almost every main train route in the UK, Europe and beyond has football fans on the way to their team's match or on the way home from it?

 

If anyone feels strongly about not wanting their kids subjected to big bad football fans and their naughty chants or songs on a Saturday, the smart move might be to not travel by train on a Saturday.

 

Furthermore, parents who object to football songs on a train because of the presence of children should thank their lucky stars that they don't live in one of the many countries where there's crackpots running up and down trains with machetes every other Saturday.

 

In other words, the normal, decent person should timetable their weekend activities and those of their children to suit sociopathic yobs. Have you thought this one through? Maybe what people expect is to be able to travel with a feeling of safety and not to have their sensibilities assualted by braying yobs chanting obscenities. The place for chanting and singing is in or at the football stadium, among people who have tacitly agreed to condone and possibly indulge in such anti-social behaviour for the period of 90 minutes, give or take - not on the lunchtime train from East Kilbride to Central Station.

 

Here's an idea; how about people don't sing, shout, swear or otherwise engage in anti-social behaviour on public transport or in public places and those who do get lifted for breach of the peace?

[pete 2,499]

In other words, the normal, decent person should timetable their weekend activities and those of their children to suit sociopathic yobs. Have you thought this one through? Maybe what people expect is to be able to travel with a feeling of safety and not to have their sensibilities assualted by braying yobs chanting obscenities. The place for chanting and singing is in or at the football stadium, among people who have tacitly agreed to condone and possibly indulge in such anti-social behaviour for the period of 90 minutes, give or take - not on the lunchtime train from East Kilbride to Central Station.

 

Here's an idea; how about people don't sing, shout, swear or otherwise engage in anti-social behaviour on public transport or in public places and those who do get lifted for breach of the peace?

 

What he said but I will go further I don't want them chanting obscenities anywhere. Good Rangers supporting songs is more preferable to me.

[Zappa 0]

<shrug> What can I say that I haven't bored you with before? I love the club, but what goes with that is the duty to represent the club in a proper fashion in public. So you'll understand when I get mighty pissed off at people who metaphorically put a Rangers shirt on a manky train carriage floor and pish all over it.

 

I dunno. Probably it's me that is over sensitive. But to say we should put up with anti-social behaviour because Rwanda's genocide was worse (or wherever you're referring to)....or to tell people that they should stay at home because Rangers fans are about...that's just giving into to the lowlifes!

 

I can see your points and also partially agree (yes, football fans should ideally represent their club in a 'proper' fashion), but I'm looking at this subject from multiple angles and one of them is the move this country has made towards unnecessary criminalisation of football fans for acts which in my view shouldn't be deemed criminal and carry harsh penalties. Every single Friday and Saturday night public transport in the UK is buzzing with tipsy travelers, loud neds and all sorts of annoying people, so where does the line get drawn? Do tens (perhaps even hundreds) of thousands of people traveling home on public transport from pubs and nights out all over the country all deserve to be hauled up in court, banned from going out drinking and given hundreds of hours of community service because they were making a nuisance of themselves on a train or a bus? No? Maybe people only deserve to be treated like criminals because they happen to be football fans?

[Gribz 743]

There has to be a fine line. We cant expect people to be robots and sit in silence on a train yet there is no place on a train for bouncing around making noise etc. I guess without the exact facts we can only speculate.

 

I used to take the train to Ibrox from Aberdeen for most games more so than the bus purely for the enjoyment day out and sitting having a few drinks on the train. At the very most we would be having a good chat and big carry out both ways and never bothered anyone other than in a good way. On the way back we'd always be rather tipsy but never caused an ounce of trouble. But people feel intimidated these days by the sight of football fans.

[Zappa 0]

In other words, the normal, decent person should timetable their weekend activities and those of their children to suit sociopathic yobs. Have you thought this one through? Maybe what people expect is to be able to travel with a feeling of safety and not to have their sensibilities assualted by braying yobs chanting obscenities. The place for chanting and singing is in or at the football stadium, among people who have tacitly agreed to condone and possibly indulge in such anti-social behaviour for the period of 90 minutes, give or take - not on the lunchtime train from East Kilbride to Central Station.

 

Here's an idea; how about people don't sing, shout, swear or otherwise engage in anti-social behaviour on public transport or in public places and those who do get lifted for breach of the peace?

 

I'll refer you to my reply to Andy and I'll add to it that I'm not trying to condone or suggest that we condone the actions of offensive or anti-social yobs, but it does seem to me as though football fans are increasingly being singled out and harshly treated in comparison to others and I think it's wrong. I also think the penalties being handed out for football fans 'offensive' singing are completely absurd. As I said to Andy, louts on the way home from the pub pulled up for breach of the peace don't get a 2 year ban from pubs & clubs and they generally wouldn't be given hundreds of hours community service either, so it seems to me that football fans are being unfairly targeted and criminalised for crimes similar in nature to what tens of thousands of others get away with every weekend. Not only that, but some of these sentences being dished out to football fans this year in Scotland for so-called offensive songs or chants are close to being what total bampots are getting in courts for public fighting and violent crimes like assault.

[The Real PapaBear 0]

I'll refer you to my reply to Andy and I'll add to it that I'm not trying to condone or suggest that we condone the actions of offensive or anti-social yobs, but it does seem to me as though football fans are increasingly being singled out and harshly treated in comparison to others and I think it's wrong. I also think the penalties being handed out for football fans 'offensive' singing are completely absurd. As I said to Andy, louts on the way home from the pub pulled up for breach of the peace don't get a 2 year ban from pubs & clubs and they generally wouldn't be given hundreds of hours community service either, so it seems to me that football fans are being unfairly targeted and criminalised for crimes similar in nature to what tens of thousands of others get away with every weekend. Not only that, but some of these sentences being dished out to football fans this year in Scotland for so-called offensive songs or chants are close to being what total bampots are getting in courts for public fighting and violent crimes like assault.

 

It seems to me, but if I'm wrong it won't be the first time, that your argument is intrinsically flawed because although you recognise football fans as an identifiable group you don't seem to accept that people acting in groups must be treated differently from individuals acting alone. It's the difference between going for a walk and going on a march; when you group together for a purpose, then different rules apply.

 

Tens of thousands may get away with stuff every weekend but that's because they are tens of thousands of individuals doing stupid stuff and not representatives of larger, identifiable groupings with anti-social agendas to promote. (although, maybe if louts did get lengthy bans from pubs and clubs when they break the law then our town and city centres might once again be places you can visit at night)

 

It's really not difficult to avoid feeling the heavy hand of the law; just don't sing songs about killing people of a different faith and/or songs glorifying terrorists and murderers.

[andy steel 0]

Fair point in reply, Zappa.

 

On a slightly broader point I would use this case as another example of how what society is willing to put up with from football fans is changing very rapidly. Many put it down to the new legislation but I have a feeling - no more than that - that if the question was put to a gathering, say the Womens' Guild or the STUC, do you like or not like the new rules which are hammering football fans the answer would be an emphatic 'like'.

 

We can fight it or change. I can see why people would want to fight it but I think it a losing battle - especially now, since, if Spiers thinks there is something wrong with the legislation, that means it must be dong something right!