That Israel flag

[Hildy 0]

There are others in the "NO" campaign who believe that the involvement of the Orange Order and others will be helpful.

Are there other issues that you feel the Rangers' support should be apologetic about?

Who is this "we" you are talking about?

You do your own "tarring" if you don't mind.

I'm sure there are. There are misguided souls in every walk of life.

 

Rangers and the Orange movement have such poor reputations that they do more harm than any benefit that might follow from their involvement.

 

As someone who is fully behind the NO campaign, I hope both Rangers and the Orange movement keep a safe distance from it.

 

Do you really think that the NO campaign is sitting hoping that the Rangers support and Orange movement get publicly behind it? They would dread it far more than they welcome it.

[Stimpy 0]

Flying an Israeli flag or Palestine during a game of football is cringeworthy. Means nothing to Rangers or its support.

[colinstein 294]

there havn't been any palestinian flags flying at our games....Uefa are against political statements in their competitions for example.

I just don't know the reason why the Israel flag is being flown by some of our supporters

Mind you I don't mind political statements from our hands across the water at Ibrox. But then, We've got a long history with our people from the province

[barca72 440]

I'm sure there are. There are misguided souls in every walk of life.

 

Rangers and the Orange movement have such poor reputations that they do more harm than any benefit that might follow from their involvement.

 

As someone who is fully behind the NO campaign, I hope both Rangers and the Orange movement keep a safe distance from it.

 

Do you really think that the NO campaign is sitting hoping that the Rangers support and Orange movement get publicly behind it? They would dread it far more than they welcome it.

 

If as the pollsters are telling us that the two campaigns are ever so close, then you have to wonder who the misguided faction are when they can afford to spurn the support of such a large section of the populace.

You tell us that the "NO" campaign is inclusive and fully representative of all, yet here you are telling a huge bloc of voters to stay away. How will you represent these voters should your side win?

Does "all" mean only those that your "nose-in-the-air" attitude approves of? Do you think you ( the NO campaign ) can be so choosey as to reject a huge bloc of supporters?

Your attitude may force more into the nationalist camp than the Orange Order demonstration of support could.

Anyway, Rangers nor their support have anything to do with the Orange Order demonstration. The Orange Order is responsible only for those who are part of this demonstration.

[Juancornetto 1]

I think we have to be pragmatic and accept that politics have crept in to our whole lives in Scotland and infrequent expressions of that at times of extreme seriousness, as is the case with Israel/Gaza and the Indyref, will happen. There's no point in getting all sanctimonious about and engaging in the ever decreasing circles debate which inevitably follows.

 

Our hooped missing link friends have turned their club into a virtual political soapbox and authorities (in Scotland) and the media here haven't batted an eyelid. The fact that, that goes against UEFA directives doesn't seem to bother them. I wonder how they will view more common political expressions when the protagonists are not from a perceived minority?

[Hildy 0]

If as the pollsters are telling us that the two campaigns are ever so close, then you have to wonder who the misguided faction are when they can afford to spurn the support of such a large section of the populace.

You tell us that the "NO" campaign is inclusive and fully representative of all, yet here you are telling a huge bloc of voters to stay away. How will you represent these voters should your side win?

Does "all" mean only those that your "nose-in-the-air" attitude approves of? Do you think you ( the NO campaign ) can be so choosey as to reject a huge bloc of supporters?

Your attitude may force more into the nationalist camp than the Orange Order demonstration of support could.

Anyway, Rangers nor their support have anything to do with the Orange Order demonstration. The Orange Order is responsible only for those who are part of this demonstration.

 

Firstly, who said anything about spurning it?

 

Secondly, where did I say that the NO campaign is inclusive and fully representative of all?

 

Thirdly, where am I telling a huge block of voters to stay away?

 

Fourthly, where have I stated that this huge army of voters should be rejected?

 

 

You may not like it, but the Orange movement's reputation across Scotland is extremely low. This may be unfair, but the organisation is reviled more than it is respected and the Rangers support is on the same dangerous road.

 

When you try to persuade people and sell them an idea or concept, you do not do it by highlighting those groups who have already bought into it who are not generally well respected.

 

Can you imagine the NO campaign having an advert for the Union which highlighted the Orange Order and Rangers?

 

No, neither can I.

 

I am a Rangers fan who understands that Rangers is becoming toxic.

 

If you are an Orangeman, you should realise that the movement has a mountain to climb before it is ever likely to be respected again.

 

Any leader of the NO campaign who tried to sell the Union to people by promoting Rangers and the Orange would be sacked before nightfall.

 

It's sad and regrettable that it has come to this, but it's the way it is and we'd all better face up to it.

[der Berliner 3,249]

On a sidenote, there is not the slightest possibility that this chap was actually simply a Rangers supporter from Israel? I know that most of my fellow German chaps take their Hamburg Loyal or Rostock Loyal flags instead of German ones along, but I wouldn't take it past others to simply show the local Bears where they are coming from.

[barca72 440]

Firstly, who said anything about spurning it?

 

Secondly, where did I say that the NO campaign is inclusive and fully representative of all?

 

Thirdly, where am I telling a huge block of voters to stay away?

 

Fourthly, where have I stated that this huge army of voters should be rejected?

 

 

You may not like it, but the Orange movement's reputation across Scotland is extremely low. This may be unfair, but the organisation is reviled more than it is respected and the Rangers support is on the same dangerous road.

 

When you try to persuade people and sell them an idea or concept, you do not do it by highlighting those groups who have already bought into it who are not generally well respected.

 

Can you imagine the NO campaign having an advert for the Union which highlighted the Orange Order and Rangers?

 

No, neither can I.

 

I am a Rangers fan who understands that Rangers is becoming toxic.

 

If you are an Orangeman, you should realise that the movement has a mountain to climb before it is ever likely to be respected again.

 

Any leader of the NO campaign who tried to sell the Union to people by promoting Rangers and the Orange would be sacked before nightfall.

 

It's sad and regrettable that it has come to this, but it's the way it is and we'd all better face up to it.

 

 

Your first four lines are covered by your own original statement - "As someone who is fully behind the NO campaign, I hope both Rangers and the Orange movement keep a safe distance from it."

You are the one who is attempting to combine two separate entities - Rangers and the Orange Order - as one entity. Please stop doing that.

Have you been to an Orange Order, an Apprentice Boy, or an RBP parade recently? Can you tell me that the popularity of these parades is decreasing?

By whom would you say that these organizations are being "reviled rather than respected"?

On these organizations' side of the mountain they appear to be revered, but on your side of the mountain they appear to be reviled.

Have you ever investigated the rules and charters of these organizations or are you basing your revulsion of them on the little drunken neds who attach themselves to them at parades?

I have never attempted to persuade people and sell them an idea or concept, placed an advert, nor advocated that any leader should promote the Orange Order in any campaign concerning the NO campaign.

I don't know of anyone from these organizations that have requested that such actions should be done.

That is all in your own imagination.

The Orange Order has stated that they will be holding a march in support of the NO campaign. That is all. They wish to show their support of the Union.

They have not asked anyone else to join them. They have not asked for anyone to be recruited to their order. They have not asked the NO campaign to afford them any special treatment or advance them any favourable status.

They know, unlike yourself it would seem, that they are responsible for every member of their Order. That is all they are responsible for.

I assume that the NO campaign is in favour of every citizen having the right to express their respective points of view in a legal manner.

 

As far as Rangers go, what exactly do you mean by - " I am a Rangers fan who understands that Rangers is becoming toxic."?

Are you implying that the P/U/L community are somehow poisoning the Rangers?

What exactly is sad and regrettable, apart from the fact we are poor and play lousy football?

[Stimpy 0]

there havn't been any palestinian flags flying at our games....Uefa are against political statements in their competitions for example.

I just don't know the reason why the Israel flag is being flown by some of our supporters

Mind you I don't mind political statements from our hands across the water at Ibrox. But then, We've got a long history with our people from the province

 

Not sure if you travel to Belfast for the orange celebrations, but a few years ago every loyalist area was covered in Israeli flags, the **** areas were full of Palestine. Some areas still fly those flags. I get the Palestine one as they've a history of arms dealing and use similar tactics with woman and kids, but not so Israel. Maybe that's through my own lack of knowledge or ignorance?

[Hildy 0]

Your first four lines are covered by your own original statement - "As someone who is fully behind the NO campaign, I hope both Rangers and the Orange movement keep a safe distance from it."

You are the one who is attempting to combine two separate entities - Rangers and the Orange Order - as one entity. Please stop doing that.

Have you been to an Orange Order, an Apprentice Boy, or an RBP parade recently? Can you tell me that the popularity of these parades is decreasing?

By whom would you say that these organizations are being "reviled rather than respected"?

On these organizations' side of the mountain they appear to be revered, but on your side of the mountain they appear to be reviled.

Have you ever investigated the rules and charters of these organizations or are you basing your revulsion of them on the little drunken neds who attach themselves to them at parades?

I have never attempted to persuade people and sell them an idea or concept, placed an advert, nor advocated that any leader should promote the Orange Order in any campaign concerning the NO campaign.

I don't know of anyone from these organizations that have requested that such actions should be done.

That is all in your own imagination.

The Orange Order has stated that they will be holding a march in support of the NO campaign. That is all. They wish to show their support of the Union.

They have not asked anyone else to join them. They have not asked for anyone to be recruited to their order. They have not asked the NO campaign to afford them any special treatment or advance them any favourable status.

They know, unlike yourself it would seem, that they are responsible for every member of their Order. That is all they are responsible for.

I assume that the NO campaign is in favour of every citizen having the right to express their respective points of view in a legal manner.

 

As far as Rangers go, what exactly do you mean by - " I am a Rangers fan who understands that Rangers is becoming toxic."?

Are you implying that the P/U/L community are somehow poisoning the Rangers?

What exactly is sad and regrettable, apart from the fact we are poor and play lousy football?

The Catholic community generally dislikes the Orange movement, which is hardly a surprise, but in my experience it isn't popular with the vast majority of people who could reasonably be bracketed under the Protestant banner, including many Rangers fans.

 

I would certainly struggle to find many people who have a good word to say about it.

 

It may find itself struggling in the future - independence or no independence - as there is growing pressure to limit its marches or have them banned altogether, which would be an absolute outrage, but most Scots would not be sorry to see the back of them and the movement shouldn't delude itself that it could count on mass support to defend it.

 

Rangers and the Orange movement are intertwined as far as the Rangers-hating community is concerned. You can argue differently and probably make a reasonable case, but popular perception is hard to counter. They call us orange b******s after all - not blue ones.