the gunslinger 3,366 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Agreed pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
der Berliner 3,319 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 (edited) Someone on FF said that the purpose of the Supreme Court is to sit on matters that contest a point of law. Their raison d'être is not simply to handle escalated cases. Unless I am mistaken, the judge in each case had and has to give leave to appeal? If the above if correct, the SC would not welcome any appeal, as for this and the last round, HMRC did not contest "a point in law", did they? Perhaps (and hopefully) the current judge sees no point to grant a leave to appeal ... Edited September 16, 2015 by der Berliner Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete 2,499 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Someone on FF said that the purpose of the Supreme Court is to sit on matters that contest a point of law. Their raison d'être is not simply to handle escalated cases. Unless I am mistaken, the judge in each case had and has to give leave to appeal? If the above if correct, the SC would not welcome any appeal, as for this and the last round, HMRC did not contest "a point in law", did they? Perhaps (and hopefully) the current judge sees no point to grant a leave to appeal ... It would certainly make it feel like the new dawn is complete. That is the last thing in our way of moving forward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aweebluesoandso 290 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 King was hinting last week (reading between the lines) about this, and him taking oldco out of Admin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrahimHemdani 1 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) Someone on FF said that the purpose of the Supreme Court is to sit on matters that contest a point of law. Their raison d'être is not simply to handle escalated cases. Unless I am mistaken, the judge in each case had and has to give leave to appeal? If the above if correct, the SC would not welcome any appeal, as for this and the last round, HMRC did not contest "a point in law", did they? Perhaps (and hopefully) the current judge sees no point to grant a leave to appeal ... You are correct that an appeal has to be on a point of law or based on new evidence (unlikely in this situation), you cannot simply reargue the original case and hope for a different outcome. I am sure you are correct that the judge has to grant leave to appeal to the SC not sure if or when that applies in the lower courts. I would think that 3 strikes and you're out, might apply here; even if not from a technical point of view; essentially the same point is being argued over and over again. Edited September 17, 2015 by BrahimHemdani Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueMazza 0 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Really good news, I'd like a statement from HMRC saying they accept that all the courts have vindicated us but of course that won't happen. It will no doubt be the 'they've gotten away with it' style to try and leave it ambiguous. Nice to see us being on the right side of the law. I'll leave the morality & integrity side to the team who have a history that protected those who did break the law. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7 5,299 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 "You are correct that an appeal has to be on a point of law or based on new evidence (unlikely in this situation), you cannot simply reargue the original case and hope for a different outcome." - BH. I don't know about tax cases but in civil cases you can argue the same point of law from the Sheriff, to the Sheriff Principal to the Court of Session to the SC. By the time you get there at least four, maybe as many as nine judges will have found against you but you can win 3 - 2 in the SC. An extreme example but possible, all on a single point of law. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrahimHemdani 1 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 "You are correct that an appeal has to be on a point of law or based on new evidence (unlikely in this situation), you cannot simply reargue the original case and hope for a different outcome." - BH. I don't know about tax cases but in civil cases you can argue the same point of law from the Sheriff, to the Sheriff Principal to the Court of Session to the SC. By the time you get there at least four, maybe as many as nine judges will have found against you but you can win 3 - 2 in the SC. An extreme example but possible, all on a single point of law. It would be interesting to know on what grounds leave to appeal is either granted or refused. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrahimHemdani 1 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Really good news, I'd like a statement from HMRC saying they accept that all the courts have vindicated us but of course that won't happen. It will no doubt be the 'they've gotten away with it' style to try and leave it ambiguous. Nice to see us being on the right side of the law. I'll leave the morality & integrity side to the team who have a history that protected those who did break the law. I am hopeful, but by no means certain that what will happen here (if the rumour is correct) is the HMRC will say that they accept the verdict of the courts but will seek to have the law changed to avoid a recurrence of what TBH is a bit of a loophole, in the future. On the other hand given that apparently so many other cases depend on the outcome of our case, they may still fight it all the way, on the grounds that the potential benefit to the taxpayers as a whole outweighs the cost of the court action. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinstein 294 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 I thought the law had already been changed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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