Odds to win 17/18 title

[craig 5,199]

I have seen nothing to suggest we can't win the league at the moment. We have the best defender in the league and arguably the most in form striker.

 

Be optimistic mate.

 

2 players don't make a team mate.

 

I prefer pessimism because when we do win the league it will feel all the sweeter

 

We have sterner tests on the horizon from the games we have played thus far

[craig 5,199]

I just don't think they're as good as the rabble think they are and feel we might be better than we think we are. Our side hasn't even settled in at this point yet are still playing some impressive football. The best is yet to come and hopefully something approaching the best may surface in that game.

 

Yes, at times. And that is the problem. We need to be producing it consistently.

 

We have still to play the teams that finished 1st, 2nd and 4th last season - the teams we have played thus far are games we should be expected to win. You can only beat what is in front of you but we wont get a proper indication of where we are until we play those teams IMO.

[JFK-1 1,675]

Yes, at times. And that is the problem. We need to be producing it consistently.

 

We have still to play the teams that finished 1st, 2nd and 4th last season - the teams we have played thus far are games we should be expected to win. You can only beat what is in front of you but we wont get a proper indication of where we are until we play those teams IMO.

 

The thing is you can turn that around and say that those teams haven't played us yet so there has been no proper indication of where they are. The only one of those I have seen any of this season are the sheep and they were nothing like as impressive as we have been in our purple phases.

[craig 5,199]

The thing is you can turn that around and say that those teams haven't played us yet so there has been no proper indication of where they are. The only one of those I have seen any of this season are the sheep and they were nothing like as impressive as we have been in our purple phases.

 

The difference being, in Celtic's case, that they haven't undergone root and branch change in the off-season - so we already know what they have. Aberdeen & St Johnstone I will give you. But our competition should be to win the league. I am wholly convinced we will finish 2nd.

 

See, the "purple phases" are all well and good. But if we don't score in that phase then we slip back to mediocrity then you will lose more than your fair share of games. As I said, consistency is the key. The game isn't played through a "30 minute purple patch" - it is played over 90 minutes and it is the whole that makes most difference.

 

If you look at the game on Saturday past - we completely dominated it... yet that slip into mediocrity at the start of the 2nd half could easily have resulted in an equalizer, which could have completely changed the whole complexion of the game.

[JFK-1 1,675]

The difference being, in Celtic's case, that they haven't undergone root and branch change in the off-season - so we already know what they have. Aberdeen & St Johnstone I will give you. But our competition should be to win the league. I am wholly convinced we will finish 2nd.

 

See, the "purple phases" are all well and good. But if we don't score in that phase then we slip back to mediocrity then you will lose more than your fair share of games. As I said, consistency is the key. The game isn't played through a "30 minute purple patch" - it is played over 90 minutes and it is the whole that makes most difference.

 

If you look at the game on Saturday past - we completely dominated it... yet that slip into mediocrity at the start of the 2nd half could easily have resulted in an equalizer, which could have completely changed the whole complexion of the game.

 

Well looking at the second place finish proposition even at this point i'm taking that as an almost certain minimum end point. Admittedly as I said the only other I have seen is the one who finished 2nd last time out and they had no purple phases on show. At best they were simply physical and trying to muscle the opposition out of it. When that doesn't work they have no 'purple' players to get them into it.

 

And in addition to that the one I saw was their game with Hearts who we played off the park and they did not. The best things I could have said about them is 1 they have a good goalie and 2 they were lucky to come away with a point.

 

As for the yahoos well granted we don't really know yet but there are hints that they are there for the taking too. If the journeymen of Partick can run them close as they did I will hazard a guess that we're capable of taking it a step further. No 'journeymen' have looked like taking anything from us so far which on it's own is a striking change from last season when the journeymen began taking points from us on day one.

 

Partick have nothing like an Alves and absolutely nothing like a Morelos, Candeias, Pena, and all the other potent attacking options we have.

[craig 5,199]

Well looking at the second place finish proposition even at this point i'm taking that as an almost certain minimum end point. Admittedly as I said the only other I have seen is the one who finished 2nd last time out and they had no purple phases on show. At best they were simply physical and trying to muscle the opposition out of it. When that doesn't work they have no 'purple' players to get them into it.

 

And in addition to that the one I saw was their game with Hearts who we played off the park and they did not. The best things I could have said about them is 1 they have a good goalie and 2 they were lucky to come away with a point.

 

As for the yahoos well granted we don't really know yet but there are hints that they are there for the taking too. If the journeymen of Partick can run them close as they did I will hazard a guess that we're capable of taking it a step further. No 'journeymen' have looked like taking anything from us so far which on it's own is a striking change from last season when the journeymen began taking points from us on day one.

 

Partick have nothing like an Alves and absolutely nothing like a Morelos, Candeias, Pena, and all the other potent attacking options we have.

 

But you continue to use watching the odd game of an opponent as some barometer of their actual status. Anyone watching us against Progres would have said the same about us. a handful of games doesn't make the season. You keep doing this JFK but it often bits in the arse. Last season, case in point. All season you kept talking about how we would finish second and how Aberdeen weren't as good as us. And we finished in 3rd. Lessons should be learnt

 

Do I believe we are better than Aberdeen ? I simply don't know as I haven't watched them play this season - I only watch our games in Scottish football (unless there is nothing else to watch). So I couldn't say.

 

Again, you are using their game against Hearts and comparing it to our game as some kind of indicator - I have said this before, it isn't any sort of indicator because different players play differently against different teams. We may have played Hearts off the park, but how much of that was down to Hearts playing against us exactly as they wanted to ? Aberdeen got the exact same scoreline AWAY to Hearts that we got at HOME to Hearts - so someone else could say that Aberdeen's result was more of an achievement than ours as it was achieved on the road. Hopefully you understand what I'm getting at ?

 

Sure, the journeymen of Partick ran Celtic close.... but in your love of using how teams compare by looking at their results against one other team.... What was Celtic's score on the opening day at home to Hearts and what was our score at home to Hearts ? See... when you use that single game analogy it is wide open to be used against you.

 

Not even sure why you mention Partick in this context. Partick aren't even part of the discussion other than being our next opponents are they ?

Edited September 13, 2017 by craig

[JFK-1 1,675]

But you continue to use watching the odd game of an opponent as some barometer of their actual status. Anyone watching us against Progres would have said the same about us. a handful of games doesn't make the season. You keep doing this JFK but it often bits in the arse. Last season, case in point. All season you kept talking about how we would finish second and how Aberdeen weren't as good as us. And we finished in 3rd. Lessons should be learnt

 

Do I believe we are better than Aberdeen ? I simply don't know as I haven't watched them play this season - I only watch our games in Scottish football (unless there is nothing else to watch). So I couldn't say.

 

Again, you are using their game against Hearts and comparing it to our game as some kind of indicator - I have said this before, it isn't any sort of indicator because different players play differently against different teams. We may have played Hearts off the park, but how much of that was down to Hearts playing against us exactly as they wanted to ? Aberdeen got the exact same scoreline AWAY to Hearts that we got at HOME to Hearts - so someone else could say that Aberdeen's result was more of an achievement than ours as it was achieved on the road. Hopefully you understand what I'm getting at ?

 

Sure, the journeymen of Partick ran Celtic close.... but in your love of using how teams compare by looking at their results against one other team.... What was Celtic's score on the opening day at home to Hearts and what was our score at home to Hearts ? See... when you use that single game analogy it is wide open to be used against you.

 

Not even sure why you mention Partick in this context. Partick aren't even part of the discussion other than being our next opponents are they ?

 

At this stage I have nothing else but what I have seen us do and what I have seen others do in similar circumstances to judge by do I? Partick enter into it simply because they could be described as journeymen of the league and they almost took a point from the 'invincibles' while no journeymen have been running us close.

 

Progres was our first competitive challenge with a brand new team which just didn't click so early in the familiarisation process. We now consistently produce these purple patches for extensive periods in every game while the sheep did not in the game I saw. We're getting better from game to game while the others seemingly are what they are.

 

I think it's a valid and the only perspective to judge from at this stage till we have something better, the alternative is simply having no opinion at all which would leave us and the media for that matter with nothing to say about the prospects of any contender beyond I don't know.

 

At the end of the day granted I don't know but neither does anybody else so i'm left judging from the only things I do know for sure. And that on the current evidence leads me to tentatively believe that we're far better than the sheep at a bare minimum.

[craig 5,199]

At this stage I have nothing else but what I have seen us do and what I have seen others do in similar circumstances to judge by do I? Partick enter into it simply because they could be described as journeymen of the league and they almost took a point from the 'invincibles' while no journeymen have been running us close.

Progres was our first competitive challenge with a brand new team which just didn't click so early in the familiarisation process. We now consistently produce these purple patches for extensive periods in every game while the sheep did not in the game I saw. We're getting better from game to game while the others seemingly are what they are.

 

 

I think it's a valid and the only perspective to judge from at this stage till we have something better, the alternative is simply having no opinion at all which would leave us and the media for that matter with nothing to say about the prospects of any contender beyond I don't know.

 

At the end of the day granted I don't know but neither does anybody else so i'm left judging from the only things I do know for sure. And that on the current evidence leads me to tentatively believe that we're far better than the sheep at a bare minimum.

 

I haven't a clue what the relevance of "journeymen" is. At the end of the day they are professional footballers and that is all that matters.

 

Yes, that is all you have to go on, but it is foundations built on sand at the present time. The past is not an indicator of the future, right ?

 

I note that you use Partick as a positive comparison, or as a reason to suggest Celtic aren't all they are hyped up to be (despite us having not yet played them), you downplay Progres because it was our first competitive challenge.... and that you ignore the comparable results in Celtic v Hearts and Rangers v Hearts. That tells its own story.....

 

It is obviously your prerogative to judge from what you have seen. But it doesn't mean that it is any indication whatsoever, at this point in time, as to whether we are better than the rest or can get a result from Celtic. It is a pointless judging exercise right now, IMHO.

 

Either way, it is pointless. You are completely at liberty to make your comparisons as you see fit - and I am obviously at liberty to see them as pointless comparisons this early - when we play Aberdeen, Celtic and St Johnstone will be the time to judge - and even then only if we get a level playing field, which we didn't against Hibs.

[JFK-1 1,675]

I note that you use Partick as a positive comparison, or as a reason to suggest Celtic aren't all they are hyped up to be (despite us having not yet played them), you downplay Progres because it was our first competitive challenge....

 

Prior to that you had said this.

 

The difference being, in Celtic's case, that they haven't undergone root and branch change in the off-season

 

You concede there that going through such change in an off season is a major negative early factor but then dispute I can legitimately use that to speculate why Progres became a disaster? Do you think Progres could beat us now?

 

And as you say it all boils down to the way different people take differing views of what's available to judge on at this stage and my view is siding towards optimism since what I have seen is that the purple patches are becoming so consistent from game to game they're reaching a level where they're encompassing the majority of each game.

 

I see most people now saying we're far better than we were last season while everyone else in the league is no better at best or even weaker at worst. Wouldn't it be more than fair to say we're far and away the most improved side in comparison to last season?

 

I think that's solid grounding for encouragement to adopt this optimistic view though i'm not saying it's guaranteed to work as we would all like it to. Simply that it is at least enough to encourage optimism.

Edited September 13, 2017 by JFK-1