match thread (image) [FT] Rangers 2 (Murphy 23; Tavernier 90+2 pen) - 0 FC Shkupi

[craig 5,199]

16 minutes ago, DMAA said:

That doesn’t matter I just listed all the games, of course it wasn’t an important game. 

It actually does kind of matter - because you said "they lost the only times they came up against decent opposition" - that is, to me anyway, inferring that they had their best team out and lost to superior opposition.  It was reserves vs reserves in that game so is kind of pointless in terms of the quality of opposition they played - Belgium reserves aren't as good as Colombia's main team.....

 

Would they have beaten Belgium if it was starting Xi vs starting XI ?  I doubt it.

[craig 5,199]

14 minutes ago, Big Jaws said:

 

I disagree with you both of course it was important. It was the last game of the World Cup group stages to determine who won the group going into the last 16. Winning the group meant that there would be a much tougher route to the final as Belgium found out with the calibre of opponent they've had to face. I'm not criticising Gareth Southgate or the players here rather suggesting there is a way to navigate sections of tournaments with a degree of savvy.

 

I think you are missing the point I was making....

[buster. 4,808]

16 minutes ago, Big Jaws said:

 

I disagree with you both of course it was important. It was the last game of the World Cup group stages to determine who won the group going into the last 16. Winning the group meant that there would be a much tougher route to the final as Belgium found out with the calibre of opponent they've had to face. I'm not criticising Gareth Southgate or the players here rather suggesting there is a way to navigate sections of tournaments with a degree of savvy.

 

It certainly was important (not to win)  and England, by 'accident' or design managed to get beat and have the easier route in the competition in front of them.

 

So whilst technically, they had been behind in the scoreline and beaten by Belguim...the pragmatic view has to be they were actually ahead and came out of the game as victors wrt the a 'bigger picture'.

 

As you say, "savvy".

 

--------------

 

Two Belguim v England matches in a WC and both have a strange feel about them that will feature mucho rotation 

Edited July 12, 2018 by buster.

[Big Jaws 570]

9 minutes ago, craig said:

I think you are missing the point I was making....

I took your point and still disagree with you. The England reserve team wasn't good enough to beat the Belgium reserve team. I agree that both teams were weaker teams than they would normally have out and that there was a case for Southgate to do that both in terms of game time and inclusion for his squad players and tactically.

 

However it was a full international match inside the most prestigious tournament in the world. As far as would they have beaten them with their full XI's out well we'll find that out on Saturday wont we?

 

EDIT: Albeit without arguably in my opinion their best player of the tournament in Kieran Trippier as he's injured I believe.

Edited July 12, 2018 by Big Jaws

[craig 5,199]

1 minute ago, Big Jaws said:

I took your point and still disagree with you. The England reserve team wasn't good enough to beat the Belgium reserve team. I agree that both teams were weaker teams than they would normally have out and that there was a case for Southgate to do that both in terms of game time and inclusion for his squad players and tactically.

 

However it was a full international match inside the most prestigious tournament in the world. As far as would they have beaten them with their full XI's out well we'll find that out on Saturday wont we?

Then we will agree to disagree - the argument that "they lost the only times they came up against decent opposition" is pointless because if it isn't your starting XI then it is futile using it in comparison.  As I said, Colombia's starting XI is stronger than Belgium's reserves... yet Colombia are being discounted as inferior opposition whilst Belgium are being used as "decent opposition".  It's a silly comparison to make, particularly as Belgium is being used as decent opposition with complete ignorance of the fact it was their reserve team.

 

Nope, I highly doubt we will find out on Saturday - historically the 3rd/4th place play off has been nothing more than an exhibition match where players who have had zero or little game time get minutes on the pitch.  I will be astounded if we see anything close to starting line-ups from either team - especially as these guys who have played most minutes of each game have clubs to go back to and in many cases European football to look towards... their respective coaches are likely to rest them, whether they themselves want that or not.

[JFK-1 1,675]

1 hour ago, Big Jaws said:

I mentioned it because hearing him say that jogging around was not on was a marked change, a breath of fresh air if you like, from the otherwise nicey, nicey of the previous coaches/managers. He want them snapping into tackles and chasing the ball down but not in an aimless or listless way he is demanding much more from them.

I loved that too. Scrutinising them closely he will be and anyone not going at it it full blast will be noted and dealt with accordingly. "phonies pretending with little crazy jogs"

 

 

[craig 5,199]

Anyway, back on topic....

 

I haven't been as excited about the start of a season in a LONG time !!!

 

#LETS  GO

[Big Jaws 570]

19 minutes ago, craig said:

Then we will agree to disagree - the argument that "they lost the only times they came up against decent opposition" is pointless because if it isn't your starting XI then it is futile using it in comparison.  As I said, Colombia's starting XI is stronger than Belgium's reserves... yet Colombia are being discounted as inferior opposition whilst Belgium are being used as "decent opposition".  It's a silly comparison to make, particularly as Belgium is being used as decent opposition with complete ignorance of the fact it was their reserve team.

 

Nope, I highly doubt we will find out on Saturday - historically the 3rd/4th place play off has been nothing more than an exhibition match where players who have had zero or little game time get minutes on the pitch.  I will be astounded if we see anything close to starting line-ups from either team - especially as these guys who have played most minutes of each game have clubs to go back to and in many cases European football to look towards... their respective coaches are likely to rest them, whether they themselves want that or not.

Ahh OK your post makes sense now we're not discussing the same thing. I'm not arguing that the only time they lost was because they came up against decent opposition. I also disagree with DMMA on that too. I'm not making comparisons between Belgium and Columbia either. I'm simply arguing that England lost a competitive game in the World Cup finals regardless of who, how or why they lost that match to. I'm arguing that the commentator was wrong in saying that England being behind against Croatia was the first time in the tournament that they were behind. It clearly wasn't.

Edited July 12, 2018 by Big Jaws

[buster. 4,808]

No value at the bookies.

 

Bet365 have us as 1/14 odds on.

 

It's as if they are rating the Macedonians as East Fife, which I'd guess isn't very fair on them.

[Big Jaws 570]

8 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

I loved that too. Scrutinising them closely he will be and anyone not going at it it full blast will be noted and dealt with accordingly. "phonies pretending with little crazy jogs"

 

Its a proper kick up the backside for players that are used to being treated with kid gloves.