match thread (image) [FT] Villarreal 2 - 2 Rangers (Arfield 67; Lafferty 76)

[DMAA 3,603]

52 minutes ago, Rousseau said:

Is he left-footed?

Right unfortunately

[JohnMc 2,473]

I had the rare treat of driving to Aberdeen and back yesterday. I downloaded and listened to  the Gersnet podcast during my journey, it was a big improvement on the week before. However, the three contributors were surprisingly confident about the Villareal away match. So much so that by the end of the show I was feeling upbeat about the match. Villareal aren't scoring goals this season, are languishing in the lower depths of La Liga and have no one of the calibre of Riquelme or Forlan playing for them now. 

 

Fifteen minutes into the first half I was cursing the podcast for raising my expectations as I watched us being schooled by athletic, pass and move Spaniards looking like it was a training match against a passing amateur side following a heavy night on the tiles. We literally seemed unable to make even simple passes at times. Ach well, that'll teach me I thought. 

 

Then, after threatening an anal hammering early in the second half, we turned into Rangers of old. A side that looks like it's on the ropes suddenly springs to life, Tav turns into Messi and Arfield, who I'd bellowed at minutes before for being rubbish, slots one away and all before is forgotten. Well, for a couple of minutes it was. 

 

Lafferty's goal was a thing of beauty, the first time cross from Barasic was exquisite, Laff's run and finish was high quality, my subsequent leap across the room worthy of a man half my age. And we could have won it. We could have lost it too, but let's not dwell on that. 

 

Others have said it, but it bears repeating, we were playing, and losing, to part-timers, not long ago. Last night we drew with the fifth best side in Spain. It feels good today, enjoy that feeling, you've earned it. 

[Rousseau 9,373]

2 minutes ago, JohnMc said:

Lafferty's goal was a thing of beauty, the first time cross from Barasic was exquisite, Laff's run and finish was high quality, my subsequent leap across the room worthy of a man half my age. And we could have won it. We could have lost it too, but let's not dwell on that. 

Excellent goal all round, but the best part, for me, was Middleton's threaded pass to play through Barasic.

 

 

[DMAA 3,603]

6 minutes ago, Rousseau said:

but the best part, for me, was Middleton's threaded pass to play through Barasic.

I thought my banging on about Middleton was vindicated last night. Changed the game. You could almost smell the fear in their full back when he came on. He is so much more of a threat than Kent as a left winger it is just frustrating for me he keeps being benched because of his age.

 

Anyway last night he's proved his doubters wrong again and surely he's going to get his first start of the season soon. Middleton and Barisic is a parternership on the left that would bring a lot of goals this season.

[Rousseau 9,373]

3 minutes ago, DMAA said:

I thought my banging on about Middleton was vindicated last night. Changed the game. You could almost smell the fear in their full back when he came on. He is so much more of a threat than Kent as a left winger it is just frustrating for me he keeps being benched because of his age.

 

Anyway last night he's proved his doubters wrong again and surely he's going to get his first start of the season soon. Middleton and Barisic is a parternership on the left that would bring a lot of goals this season.

He probably deserves a start, but coming on for the last 10 minutes in games when the opponents are tired and he's tasked with taking on his Full-back is quite different from the work he'll need to put in from the start. 

 

He's still very raw, for me; he always takes on his man, which is good, but it either comes off or he loses us possession; that's fine at the death but throughout the game, perhaps he still needs to learn. 

 

I do think a start against St Johnstone would be warranted, and a decent opponent to test that side of his game. 

[DMAA 3,603]

Just now, Rousseau said:

He probably deserves a start, but coming on for the last 10 minutes in games when the opponents are tired and he's tasked with taking on his Full-back is quite different from the work he'll need to put in from the start. 

 

He's still very raw, for me; he always takes on his man, which is good, but it either comes off or he loses us possession; that's fine at the death but throughout the game, perhaps he still needs to learn. 

 

I do think a start against St Johnstone would be warranted, and a decent opponent to test that side of his game. 

Ah but you can't call him raw because he always takes on his man yet at the same time say that's what he's been tasked to do. I wouldn't say we have any reason to believe he is raw because he has been consistently effective at beating his man and creating chances for us. If he was like Sadiq and it was only coming off occasionally for him I would saw "raw" would be warranted.

 

It's true that he has an advantage coming on late, but for me the point is he is a totally different style of player and I think it's both the different style combined with his ability that has been the difference in how many chances he's created from the left wing compared to Kent.

 

In any case we're agreed he deserves a start in a home game where we are expected to be on the front foot. Those are the games where he can make his claim for a starting berth. He reminds me of Chris Burke. Chris Burke was a huge player for creating goals against your St Johnstone's and your Dundee's. Those are the games that we often didn't take 3 points from last season due to a lack of penetration and it ultimately cost us.

[DMAA 3,603]

Just now, DMAA said:

He reminds me of Chris Burke

By the way, we've discussed modern styles vs tradtional styles before and I think Chris Burke would struggle to break through today because people don't fancy an out and out winger these days. For me the game hasn't changed as much as people say it has and fast wingers who'll beat a full back and get to the by-line will always be a full back's worst nightmare and create lots of goals.

[der Berliner 3,247]

Having had a night's sleep, I still think the Spaniards weren't any better than Ufa or Maribor. They got that lucky punch early on, which visibly rattled us. Had we stopped that, they wouldn't have had it as easy in the first half. They had their chances, McGregor did his job when asked, but on the whole we didn't succumb.

 

IMHO, Worrall's first start - blooding would have been better against St. Johnstone - unless it was injury-related -  was untimely. He did well enough in the end and we did not lose the game either, but you would have expected the experienced pairing in a place like this.

 

In games like these, i.e. away from home and against sides who can play, Lafferty sure is a good option to Morelos, as he won quite a few long balls out of defence, was harrassing their defenders like mad and was running himself into the ground like there was no tomorrow.

 

Let's hope Jack gets back soonish, as he and Coulibaly plus Arfield should be in midfield in e.g. Austria. His composure was badly missed in the first half.

 

EDIT: Middleton IMHO is easily a class above Burke. Pace, trickery, an eye for a pass and willing to shoot

Edited September 21, 2018 by der Berliner

[Rousseau 9,373]

1 minute ago, DMAA said:

Ah but you can't call him raw because he always takes on his man yet at the same time say that's what he's been tasked to do. I wouldn't say we have any reason to believe he is raw because he has been consistently effective at beating his man and creating chances for us. If he was like Sadiq and it was only coming off occasionally for him I would saw "raw" would be warranted.

 

It's true that he has an advantage coming on late, but for me the point is he is a totally different style of player and I think it's both the different style combined with his ability that has been the difference in how many chances he's created from the left wing compared to Kent.

 

In any case we're agreed he deserves a start in a home game where we are expected to be on the front foot. Those are the games where he can make his claim for a starting berth. He reminds me of Chris Burke. Chris Burke was a huge player for creating goals against your St Johnstone's and your Dundee's. Those are the games that we often didn't take 3 points from last season due to a lack of penetration and it ultimately cost us.

True, but he can still be raw if that's all he can do; which is why that's when he comes on. 

 

I wouldn't say he's different per se, -- maybe different from what we have, or is that what you meant? -- more old fashioned. He basically always wants to take on his man; It's exciting, and it has come off, but for me, it's naive. (I felt he contributed to the capitulation at Motherwell, because he couldn't keep the ball and couldn't defend.) I'd like to see how he can keep possession, pass the ball, take up defensive positions etc.

 

To be fair, his cameo last night impressed me most because of that exquisite through ball.

 

He certainly deserves a start. I'd just like to temper the expectations; we need more than a player that can only take on a player, as exciting and refreshing as that is. 

[buster. 4,808]

1 minute ago, DMAA said:

By the way, we've discussed modern styles vs tradtional styles before and I think Chris Burke would struggle to break through today because people don't fancy an out and out winger these days. For me the game hasn't changed as much as people say it has and fast wingers who'll beat a full back and get to the by-line will always be a full back's worst nightmare and create lots of goals.

If you've got a player who can break lines and get in behind (note that yesterday Middleton did this with a pass) you have to nuture, encourage and develop that kind of talent.

 

However, in the modern game this type of player won't always start. As you point out, against 'lesser opposition' when defensive shape/tactical discipline isn't just as important, are the games this type of player will start.

 

We happen to have two wide players who offer the contrasting options. Kent, the more disciplined and coached player who can play an important part of a backs to the wall effort and Middleton, the more traditional direct winger.