calscot

I would say that's because we actually have far more respect for them as a team and nation than they do for us, and their attitude comes out as incredible arrogance. The don't give a shit what we do in the results and yet take a great amount of time and pleasure in telling us how crap and irrelevant we are both as an International team and also our clubs - including Rangers, and how they are the best in the world in all things football. They also laugh a lot at us when we lose or don't qualify. Now if Celtic fans started acting like that seeing as we're in the third division, would you feel the same about them as you do the English? You're saying you'd like Celtic more if they stopped seeing us as rivals and seen us as an irrelevance and "Mickey Mouse" and stopped paying any attention to us except in high profiles games that we lose? If that happens will you look to any East of Glasgow or Catholic ancestry to have them as your second team? I don't think you've really thought this through. I don't know how someone in contempt of you makes them more likeable than someone who has animosity against you as an equal rival...

Why not just buy and AC Milan top?

Any Scot who wants England to do well must have an incredibly thick skin. To me, it's a bit like wanting Celtic to win all their games in the SPL because like us, they are from Glasgow. Fair enough, support a GB team as that includes us - and is like supporting Scotland even if it is mostly made up of Celtic players, but supporting your local and biggest rivals who are also the country which holds yours in the most contempt and are your biggest insulters, is a very strange to me. Basically England is to Scotland as Celtic is to Rangers.

I think it's pretty disgusting if players are being booed for playing for Hearts - or any team. Once they are in Scotland's colours, they are Scottish and their club is irrelevant.

Sounds to me that they use the oldco/newco - whichever way benefits them, at every opportunity to shaft us.

Trouble with STB is that it doesn't sound right in division three.

I agree they can feel aggrieved but their press release was incredibly poor judgement and made them look like petty idiots who don't have a clue about their own business. It was worded in reply to Green and in a way that implied he was lying. When the truth comes out they should be pilloried for it.

Maybe it's me but it sounds like it was written by a schoolkid. Badly written and ends up being juvenile... Hope it wasn't sent.

Still selling them desksets?

Didn't Ellis get some free shares in Rangers which in the end were worth nothing... Just what he deserves - apart from a good kicking.

What's so bad about the club deck? I've never sat there, the only time I've been in the main stand was the old wooden seats with no leg room.

This sounds like something very pedantic. As an SPL member we held the rights to the archives, now we are no longer a member we don't technically have the rights. However, it's a breach of a technicality that could have been accommodated by the SPL out of good will but instead they demanded the removal. Incredibly petty indeed - although some would say they are "entitled" to do this.

That's going to be the most effective 12th man in Scotland. I can imaging SFL3 sides being overawed by a 45k or more crowd. When you also factor in a larger, smoother pitch, home games will be much easier than away.

Is that Sandaza saying, "What?" very loudly?

Now I'm shaking my head in disbelief. You're deliberately playing dumb to try and make a point. Let's at least talk about it sensibly. I talked about appropriateness. Wearing your normal colours is appropriate - including Dundee Utd and Motherwell. We have a minefield of do and don'ts to navigate in life to get on. You may call that being dictated to, others see it as prudence. Sometimes it's best to do things for the right reasons and avoid doing things for the wrong reasons. I can't believe I'm writing something so obvious but people seem to be avoiding common sense in this debate. Sometimes you have to look like you know how to behave as well as actually behaving. It's time to show a bit of sophistication in that we know it will wind certain people up and when that's the only reason you're doing it you lose a lot of class. It's petty and immature you know it and all you're argument is doing is showing a lack of sophistication - the greater understanding of things. I don't know where the wisdom is in the attitude that just because someone tells us not to do something means we should do it. A mature person will realise when he's wound someone up with something for a while, when a serious time comes it's best to avoid that unless it's absolutely necessary. This is a serious time, and time to act accordingly. When you're shown to be the most unpopular boy in the club and get kicked out, it's time to stop playing the fool and make new friends. There are plenty of other actual shades of Rangers colours to choose from so what exactly is the problem? That problem is owned by them and is a time to appropriately ignore it. If we made one like an OO sash that would be a different issue. It's judgement calls that need to be made. If you wave a red rag to a bull and they attack you, you have to question your judgement. If you stand still in brown clothes and it attacks you, it's not your judgement that is at fault. I already mentioned Dundee Utd and Motherwell but if that's the real consideration then I think pink suits your criterion better as is probably the least likely to clash... Like the red hand salute, sometimes behaving in a good way also extends to even avoiding looking like you're not behaving even if you are. It's not about Celtic, it's how we look to everyone else. When you just look petty and antagonistic as well as pandering to the less acceptable type of fan to everyday society, then you're just going to be in contempt with your peers. It's like that in all walks of life if you want to make friends and influence people. I need to look out that bank advert on youtube...

You're right, they were very forgettable...

Seems to me that if the queue is so big they should make it easier on the fans. Like let them collect a numbered ticket like Argos and go sit in the stadium with the big screens on with something entertaining on, which flashes the numbers up in the corner when you're tenth next or something, so that you can go and join a much shorter queue.

I remember our U16's came runners up in the World Cup. Only one player went on to do anything and he was Paul Dickov...

Not sure what you mean. They would both be pandering to sets of our fans and not pandering to theirs. In regards to that how are they different? The point is that your "rule" doesn't really stand up to scrutiny. I think it proves your taste is dubious! Would you wear a bright green and white tie to a Rangers dinner? We're not really talking religion here, it's about appropriateness. The trouble is that we've ruined that colour for us by using it inappropriately. You might prefer to signal the number one with your middle finger, but I think you know not to do that to your client - well normally. It's all pretty obvious and I don't really want to have to preach codes of behaviour to an intelligent man. You're argument requires us to forget about decorum and you can argue all day about the colours of things but you know it's about context and interpretation. You know it's about the OO and I can't see how acting ignorant of this is a good argument. Who said we shouldn't criticise people? Should people who represent our club do it with diplomacy? I think so. Did Green do so? I think so. Yes, we still get shafted but that doesn't make it wrong. And in the long term, if we are generally good and likeable, people will be on our side. If you are polite to someone and they are rude to you back, should you f**k politeness? You seem to suffer from the illusion that we as fans have been diplomatic. Nothing could be further from the truth - all the dignified silence in the world does not cancel out all the undignified noise many have made. Rangers fans don't DO diplomatic. That's the problem and that's why we keep getting shafted, all the way down to division three. Maybe you need to find out what class means. A lot of it is acting appropriately at the right time in all contexts. You're last sentence is a strange one. There is a bank that makes a point in their adverts of the fact they know how to act in different cultures all over the world in order to do business. I would have thought as a businessman you'd have got it.

That's a question we need to ask ourselves - and stopping any OO nonsense would take away their stick. Why give them a big stick to start with? I haven't seen anyone advocating the "dignified silence". You don't have to be silent to be dignified. We need to challenge them and our detractors at every step - but with dignity. And if some of our fans got over themselves and their childish "right to do what I like" we would make massive strides in backing up those challenges. The people in glass houses thing goes both ways, so why are we living in a crystal palace? Come on, now is not the time for an orange strip. It says a lot about them that they are offended by a mere colour but surely we have the intelligence to know when to leave something be. Perhaps you'd be happy with a green third strip as it would certainly be different - or would that colour offend YOU? I think the first purpose of a third strip is to avoid clashes with striped shirted teams. Eg If we have a blue home and a white away strip, what do we wear against Kilmarnock or St Johnstone? However, I think we all know it's also a marketing ploy to sell more shirts which is why we end up wearing it when we don't need to. But no-one makes you buy and a good bit of the money goes to the club so what's the harm?

I'm pretty sure if we cleaned up our act completely that the spotlight would start to turn on them. it's the best way of "winning" but our fans just don't seem to have that winning mentality, which is why we've been trounced in this regard for years.

You say all this but when our manager or CEO or owner says something a bit controversial and potentially inflammatory, you are one of the ones who gets straight on their back. I'm not saying that is wrong, but it is very inconsistent. I think a sensible person who knows about right or wrong knows about acting in a decent way. There is a difference in standing for your beliefs without harm to people and just doing something irrelevant to antagonise people. I'm sure you know that. Anyway, I really don't know why we want to look like Dundee Utd. I have the original orange top but rarely wear it for one main reason - when I play football, you don't get four other guys turning up in orange tops. I find red, white, black or blue tops much more useful in that regard.

And where did "no-one likes us we don't care" fit into that? Our fans have been far from good and far from dignified.

Scared of rising to the challenge of defending your convictions I see.

So should we have a F*** the Pope stand and "up to our knees in F***** blood" black puddings with "the famine's over" baked potatoes so as to pander to some of our fans and not pander to theirs? Class and diplomacy is not always regarded as pandering to the opposition. Sometimes you can just be good for goodness sake.