calscot

You would think they would post-pone their vote until next season in case we're not there. That could be amusing - Celtic force us to leave the SPL and then get out voted 11-1 for changes in the voting system to 8-4. Then the greedy SPL clubs start using this power to dismantle the financial advantage of one club - more even TV and sponsorship money payments, proportion of gate receipts paid to away team, wage cap etc. We could come back to find them struggling rather than dominating. That would then affect us but maybe it's the shot in the arm the whole of Scottish football needs.

If our supporters are as loyal as they like to think they are, the drop in income might not be so dramatic. The upkeep of Ibrox could be reduced - especially by not playing Celtic. But the point is that the biggest expense by a long way is wages and the biggest income is gate receipts. Half the first and minimise the drop in the second and you have a sustainable model. And you call other people, "nuts"! Do we really have to explain to you about the current situation?

I'd be surprised if you knew exactly what the FA would do in all scenarios. You seem to be assuming more knowledge than you actually have. Exploring possibilities is hardly nuts - I would say that is the domain of people who don't consider their options.

Yes, and it's also the way of the world for people to fight injustice or at least protest about it. Surprised you didn't know that.

If we're thinking about div 3 why not try the Conference or English Div Two instead?

What is indisputable is that Celtic also used EBTs. They may have used them a hell of a lot less but they are still guilty.

Saying we deserve it is a bit weird from our own fans. The way I see it, it's like an orphan being given new foster parents. Nine months later they are found guilty of being unfit parents and banned from fostering again. Then unbelievably the orphan is fined and banned from making new friends for a year... It's completely illogical and ethically outrageous.

I think this is a pretty damning verdict of the character of Rangers fans. 200,000 can spend over £100 a head to go to the city where the team are playing in a European final - that's over £20M spent, but when the club needs them in a less glamorous scenario they'll desert in droves. It's hard for me to criticise as I'm too far away to attend games but I'm sure that if I was a season ticket holder I'd stick it out while in the lower divisions. If nothing else it would be a bit of a change from the usual overplayed fixtures. I think it would be a lot more attractive if there was more brains in the SFL. Why do we have three divisions of 10? What can that possibly achieve except boredom? At worst it should have a division one with twelve teams and a division two of 18 teams. If Sheffield Wednesday can average over 20k in Div One then surely if we have loyal fans then we should be able to double that - even just out of sheer sticking it to the SPL?

I think you are completely wrong there. It's easy for a big club to get back on its feet once the income is back at the level of its rivals. Celtic are a case in point and you only have to look at a load of English Premiership clubs doing all right after spending time in the lower divisions. If we forget Europe, we only have to be as financially as strong as Celtic and that would come automatically with promotion back to the SPL. In fact we could be in better shape as we will have had to cut our cloth while they may have overspent while income dwindles from lack of interest. Their competitiveness will have been blunted by having no real competition. The clubs that would really suffer are the bottom half of the SPL who rely on the TV money and OF gate increases just to stay afloat. I think they'd be in poor shape when we come back up. If we showed the right attitude from the club, players and fans we could come back pretty strongly. However, I'm not confident our fans are showing enough character with many saying they wouldn't support a Newco and others not interested in following the team in the lower divisions.

The law says the police can break up any ad hoc gathering for any reason so all it would take is for the police to tell people to disperse and if they don't do so the protesters would be definitely breaking the law and liable to arrest.

Would prefer no newco but to me Rangers us Rangers no matter the companies house crap. This is football and the business side is just an incredibly tedious diversion. (In fact I'm now convinced the finance world is the most boring planet in the Universe with no morals and just driven by pure greed). You can't just wipe out history - unless you're a mad dictator..

So to take top billing D&F will be billing Bill Ng for £500k? I'll get me coat...

I'm not a fan of Murray but this post leaves a pretty bad taste in the mouth. I can't even believe your a fan of the current BBC Scotland management. Makes you look more of an enemy of Murray than a friend of Rangers.

But then Billy Connolly once said, "The mere fact of wanting to be a politician should disqualify someone from becoming one." That sums up the feelings of the RST board for me. There seems to be too many ambitious politicians and not enough "helpers".

I don't quite see what you're trying to achieve with this reply. I say my own experience with the trust was not to my expectations with regards to involvement and communications and you come in defending the trust but metaphorically beat me about the head about it... A bit ironic. You may be technically correct using whatever metrics you want about what makes up a fans' group - but emotionally I see this forum as far more of a fans' group than I did with the trust. Even though I disagree with a lot on here, Gersnet represents my feelings about Rangers far more than the trust and IMHO has achieved more positive initiatives as well. Maybe the trust need to think more about the hearts and minds of the supporters. Also, you may see forums as trivial but it does allow a meeting place, even if virtual, for people to engage about the same thing. The trust has that aspect missing. I don't quite see the parallel as in any political party you can easily become involved at local level. You will get to know some movers and shakers personally and will be largely welcomed and valued. I don't see that with the trust. But the analogy doesn't quite work as a political party is necessarily a subset of the population with other parties representing other groups with other agendas. The trust should be more of an umbrella organisation that caters for a wide range of political beliefs. I don't see how this applies to me except that I saw the trust as an organisation that could represent the fans' stake holding in the club. I don't think it succeeded and the impression I get from the leadership is not something I'm comfortable with. I may have it all wrong but the RST have not handled multiple scandals at all well in my opinion. Firstly, that may be true but I receive no impression of how to be involved at all - including just voting. Communication was almost non-existent and the website sparse. That may have changed but that doesn't change my experience. Secondly, the number of resignations from the board and the machinations that go with it don't make it an attractive proposition. I don't really do Facebook and Twitter - I embrace most modern technology but can't see how Facebook enhances many people's lives and twitter is only interesting when someone points out the wheat from the chaff. They might be useful tools in expanding the message to some of the masses but it's not going to appeal to everyone. As I'm no longer a member I don't get the emails and don't check the site. RST may have improved many aspects of its communication since I left but instead of convincing me to rejoin somehow, you've come across as a bit hostile which just adds to my impression of the trust.

When I was a member for two years I received about 2 emails... Not sure what you mean about the forums, could you elaborate? Cheers!

How do you know? I know our fans have caused damage in the past but it never seems to be the same scale as them and I've never seen anything about starting a fire. The worst thing about this one is that it was an U17 game where people take their kids thinking it will be safe. I don't think you can even compare that to a proper OF game where you at least expect a bit of trouble and can take precautions or decide not to go due to the potential issues. You just don't expect it at a game like the Glasgow Cup final.

Are most of the ex-members on here? I'm one - although I was never enamoured with it at any point. I never really felt like a member at all with the only thing to remind me was my one share which brings me the AGM details and accounts info. I would like a fans group that I can actually engage with and feel part of. The best I've found is Gersnet. Perhaps you have to be on FF to get the same kind of involvement with the Trust but I've no interest in that site.

It could be better if it was put together properly with decent checks and balances. For example - only allowing someone to represent the fans for say four consecutive years before an enforced break of four years. Proper, transparent elections with one member one vote rather than co-opting. Etc. It will never be perfect but it's not exactly any kind of democratic model at the moment.

They're still a bottom half team but have they improved, remained the same or become worse? Reports suggest a bit of improvement. If we're still a top two team and have a bit of improvement then I'll be reasonably happy. I'm not looking for us to be winning the CL in the near future. The main thing is to get the club into a sustainable position where it pays for itself but still competes for all domestic trophies. It needs to be run well to this. If we do this our only real rivals will be Celtic and as they don't have many income streams more than us, we should be able to compete on a pretty even footing. Who wins between the two is then up to chance - ie who puts out the better side using similar money.

I think you can promote the merits something but not buy into a dodgy example. Can a Zimbabwean promote democracy but not vote in their own Presidential election?

I'd have thought this was obvious - you don't get one man running the show behind closed doors and just doing what he likes with the club. The proof of the pudding is where we are now after SDM and CW. To put it in another context: would you rather have our parliamentary system or Zimbabwe's? Ours is flawed but it's still a lot better than a virtual dictatorship and the leader here can be voted out... There you go, there's an argument, you've now seen one. But I'm sure you've actually seen it before.

If we can go forward without any debt then I think our wage bill should be almost manageable despite no European football. We seemed to be able to cope with it when we were paying back millions every season to LBG plus 1-2m in interest. We also haven't usually made that much profit from Europe even when we do well due to costs and increased bonuses. With the sale of Jelavic already completed and four or five other players moved on, I'd find it hard to believe that our squad needs huge cuts to bring the wage bill down to an affordable level.

Whyte also spent money on the due diligence. However, he didn't go through the whole thing and become Scotland's most hated man for no payoff. I can't see him leaving voluntarily without at least a couple of million for his troubles. I'm personally hoping it's no more than that...

A CVA will be of more interest to creditors than liquidation as to make it attractive it will pay out more than the proceeds of liquidation. Therefore any bid that includes a CVA will take precedence before a newco one. Kennedy would therefore put in a bid at the last minute if the preferred bidder was going down the newco route BEFORE it is sold. Pretty straight forward...