Big Spliff 0 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 We could not challenge the appeal result via UEFA. I know but we could have through other means, but must have been deemed not worth it. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Cole 0 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 The fact is, there is a UEFA ban. And it's very specific - it's the Billy Boys in any form. What does that mean though? The tune? The use of "Billy Boys"? Or just "feni@n"? Does this "ban" implicate other clubs in Scotland who sing the song? If they want us to change "feni@n", we sing "Celtic". If they want us to change "Billy Boys" we sing "Rangers boys". They can't say every possible variation of the song is sectarian, or are we really trapped in some sort of Orwellian nightmare? And yes, I think it's relevant and helpful to our case to point out the odd bheast song, even at the risk of Spiers accusing me of "whataboutery". 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Cole 0 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 I know but we could have through other means, but must have been deemed not worth it. I remember the period well - Murray just looked like he couldn't be arsed anymore, he saw us as irksome baggage getting in his way. It was an open goal for the bheasts and they didn't miss. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie 8,170 Posted September 4, 2009 Author Share Posted September 4, 2009 What does that mean though? The tune? The use of "Billy Boys"? Or just "feni@n"? Does this "ban" implicate other clubs in Scotland who sing the song? If they want us to change "feni@n", we sing "Celtic". If they want us to change "Billy Boys" we sing "Rangers boys". They can't say every possible variation of the song is sectarian, or are we really trapped in some sort of Orwellian nightmare? And yes, I think it's relevant and helpful to our case to point out the odd bheast song, even at the risk of Spiers accusing me of "whataboutery". "any form of ââ?¬Ë?Billy Boysââ?¬â?¢ songs is strictly prohibited." comes from the alleged directive given to Rangers and Rangers only. As such, any version of the song (changed words or not) sung by our support appears to be banned. FWIW, I doubt UEFA would care less if we sang it again. However, they'd be pressurised by the usual hypocrites once again. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Spliff 0 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 (edited) What does that mean though? The tune? The use of "Billy Boys"? Or just "feni@n"? Does this "ban" implicate other clubs in Scotland who sing the song? If they want us to change "feni@n", we sing "Celtic". If they want us to change "Billy Boys" we sing "Rangers boys". They can't say every possible variation of the song is sectarian, or are we really trapped in some sort of Orwellian nightmare? And yes, I think it's relevant and helpful to our case to point out the odd bheast song, even at the risk of Spiers accusing me of "whataboutery". I can't speak with any authority on it means but I can have a good stab at it. If TBB was sung without the word "feni@n" nobody would give a shit. The word "feni@n" is quite clearly the "problem" and a sledgehammer has been used to crack the whole song like a proverbial nut. Now I realise that strictly speaking singing TBB even with "feni@n" being swapped for "celtic" would break UEFA's edict - however absolutely NOTHING would happen on the grounds that it could never even be claimed (even by the mopiest of mopes) that is it discriminatory or sectarian in any way. Allowing the word "feni@n" to be explained as substitutional for Roman Catholic is at the root of the issue. And there is no way of going back on that now i wouldn't imagine. P.S., not excusing it, but if you were SDM I could understand why you gave in at that stage. Can you IMAGINE the pounding he would have got if Rangers chose to fight on with it after the appeal? He would have been absolutely ruined in the press for standing up for the right of Rangers fans to shout "Feni@n", and there was no WAY he was going to take that on. Edited September 4, 2009 by Big Spliff 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie 8,170 Posted September 4, 2009 Author Share Posted September 4, 2009 I can't speak with any authority on it means but I can have a good stab at it. If TBB was sung without the word "feni@n" nobody would give a shit. The word "feni@n" is quite clearly the "problem" and a sledgehammer has been used to crack the whole song like a proverbial nut. Now I realise that strictly speaking singing TBB even with "feni@n" being swapped for "celtic" would break UEFA's edict - however absolutely NOTHING would happen on the grounds that it could never even be claimed (even by the mopiest of mopes) that is it discriminatory or sectarian in any way. Allowing the word "feni@n" to be explained as substitutional for Roman Catholic is at the root of the issue. And there is no way of going back on that now i wouldn't imagine. A fair analysis. The fact that word is now apparently illegal in a football (and social) context means there is no going back now. As such, Rangers will see allowing a sanitised version of the song too dangerous as the f word will creep back in eventually. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Cole 0 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 If TBB was sung without the word "feni@n" nobody would give a shit. The word "feni@n" is quite clearly the "problem" and a sledgehammer has been used to crack the whole song like a proverbial nut. Now I realise that strictly speaking singing TBB even with "feni@n" being swapped for "celtic" would break UEFA's edict - however absolutely NOTHING would happen on the grounds that it could never even be claimed (even by the mopiest of mopes) that is it discriminatory or sectarian in any way. This is exactly how I understand the situation. Now, given the above, what is it that we as a support are so reticent about when it comes to TBB? It baffles me. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Cole 0 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 "any form of ââ?¬Ë?Billy Boysââ?¬â?¢ songs is strictly prohibited." comes from the alleged directive given to Rangers and Rangers only. As such, any version of the song (changed words or not) sung by our support appears to be banned. As I've said Spiers would accuse me of "whataboutery" here but it's completely relevant - given the above, how does this affect other Scottish clubs who sing it? FWIW, I doubt UEFA would care less if we sang it again. However, they'd be pressurised by the usual hypocrites once again. Totally agree. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Spliff 0 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 This is exactly how I understand the situation. Now, given the above, what is it that we as a support are so reticent about when it comes to TBB? It baffles me. what do you mean Norris? what are you suggesting we, the support, do? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie 8,170 Posted September 4, 2009 Author Share Posted September 4, 2009 The other club's won't be highlighted because their versions are not 'sectarian'. I would thought they could be argued as 'unacceptable' though but, as we know, the usual crusaders are only interested in one club in that regard. To be fair to the club, I'm pretty sure they highlighted that inconsistency when the 'go home' song was under scrutiny. They need to do more than that though if they want to show they share our frustration. This brings us back to Tannochside's post RE: the media discussion at the Ibrox Q&A 2 weeks back. We need to examine ways ourselves of applying pressure on the media irrespective of what the club do. Being more organised via STS and the Assembly may help us achieve a Herald/Spiers type result or better. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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