'Setting The Standard' Project Moves Forward

[Big Spliff 0]

Interesting post TB. What would you say the bears actually got in return for abandoning The Billy Boys? Are you sure this was the deal because I always understood the club announced that TBB had been banned by UEFA and that they (Murray) had no option but to ask the supporters not to sing it. I didn't know the club had hung out a quid pro quo relating to addressing the anti-Rangers media - and to be frank, I've yet to see anyone at Rangers ever come out and actually take on the media bias against Rangers. In which case it wasn't really much of a deal at all. The so-called UEFA position on The Billy Boys has never been clearly and unambiguously confirmed and there remain deep suspicions that the club deliberately manipulated the situation (invented the UEFA banning) for the sole purpose of meeting Murray's personal aspiration to kill off what he perceived as a sectarian anthem.

 

I'd love to know the truth of it all but that's a commodity in scarce supply these last few years. I felt the role of the RST via it's FF mouthpiece was particularly regretable in pushing the club's message rather than seeking proper confirmation before falling so obediently in line ...... in return for what look like empty promises.

 

I'm sure TB will be back along to explain, but I thought he meant that what the fans were to get in return was praise from RFC for the self-policing which led to nearly everybody stopping singing TBB at matches. As you say, not much of a deal if that's the case.

 

I assume that all the supporters reps present were convinced of the UEFA "decision" - be it a huge bluff or a stark reality. I've read that some people present say they saw the actual letter though. I'd also point out that it's a bit unfair to single out the Trust and/or FF because the meeting was attended by several fans' groups and they issued a joint statement, although I agree that FF was probably the only significant voice on-line at the time;

 

Jim Templeton - Assembly President

Alex Milree - Chairman of the Scottish Alliance Delegates

Mark Dingwall - Follow Follow/ Rangers Supporters Trust

James Carlin - The Blue Order

Simon Leslie - The Blue Order

Tam Green - Lanarkshire Supporters Representative

David Edgar - Rangers Supporters Trust, Media Spokesperson

Ross Blyth - Fife and District supporters club representative

Malcolm McNiven - Rangers Supporters Trust, Chairman

[maineflyer 0]

I'm sure TB will be back along to explain, but I thought he meant that what the fans were to get in return was praise from RFC for the self-policing which led to nearly everybody stopping singing TBB at matches. As you say, not much of a deal if that's the case.

 

I assume that all the supporters reps present were convinced of the UEFA "decision" - be it a huge bluff or a stark reality. I've read that some people present say they saw the actual letter though. I'd also point out that it's a bit unfair to single out the Trust and/or FF because the meeting was attended by several fans' groups and they issued a joint statement, although I agree that FF was probably the only significant voice on-line at the time;

 

Jim Templeton - Assembly President

Alex Milree - Chairman of the Scottish Alliance Delegates

Mark Dingwall - Follow Follow/ Rangers Supporters Trust

James Carlin - The Blue Order

Simon Leslie - The Blue Order

Tam Green - Lanarkshire Supporters Representative

David Edgar - Rangers Supporters Trust, Media Spokesperson

Ross Blyth - Fife and District supporters club representative

Malcolm McNiven - Rangers Supporters Trust, Chairman

 

I mention the Trust only because I was a member and looked to that organisation for representation and information. I think it was about then that I finally realised that the RST was essentially a dud.... or at least part of it had interests at heart other than those of the membership. Nuff said.

 

I've no doubt that a letter was produced but I've yet to meet anyone who can confirm in solid terms that it was actually from UEFA and that it left the club no choice but to endorse it. I'm not suggesting I know otherwise but it was very strange indeed that no such clear corroboration was ever forthcoming. I thought at the time some of those who attended from supporter organisations went to extraordinary lengths to convince rheir audience of the need to comply with the club's directive but were never able to confirm (at least not in answer to my questions) that is was clearly a UEFA ultimatum. For that reason, I've always been extremely suspicious of the circumstances surrounding the "banning" of TBB and I know I'm far from alone in this.

[Big Spliff 0]

I've no doubt that a letter was produced but I've yet to meet anyone who can confirm in solid terms that it was actually from UEFA and that it left the club no choice but to endorse it. I'm not suggesting I know otherwise but it was very strange indeed that no such clear corroboration was ever forthcoming. I thought at the time some of those who attended from supporter organisations went to extraordinary lengths to convince rheir audience of the need to comply with the club's directive but were never able to confirm (at least not in answer to my questions) that is was clearly a UEFA ultimatum. For that reason, I've always been extremely suspicious of the circumstances surrounding the "banning" of TBB and I know I'm far from alone in this.

Yep, I know what you mean.

 

I'm sure this ain't the end of this thread now that we're onto this

[maineflyer 0]

Yep, I know what you mean.

 

I'm sure this ain't the end of this thread now that we're onto this

 

Yes, you're probably right......sorry

I've been here a few times before myself. One day the truth will out.....I hope.

[Frankie 8,151]

Sorry MF but while I've not seen the official directive myself I still think it exists - too much circumstantial evidence to think otherwise.

 

But, there is no reason why the issue can't be brought up at a future Fans Forum or even the club AGM to request a copy of the official document is made available.

[maineflyer 0]

Sorry MF but while I've not seen the official directive myself I still think it exists - too much circumstantial evidence to think otherwise.

 

But, there is no reason why the issue can't be brought up at a future Fans Forum or even the club AGM to request a copy of the official document is made available.

 

Hi Frankie,

D'you mean a Rangers directive or a UEFA directive? I can well believe the former but I'm strugglig a bit with the latter, given that it appears not to have been reported anywhere but that meeting.

[Frankie 8,151]

I don't think it was a Rangers directive. Here's a time line I posted a while back in another thread which quotes from this allege directive after UEFA admitted publicly they were punishing us for the Billy Boys song.

 

 

1. UEFA Open Proceedings after Villarreal match (09/03/2006)

http://www.uefa.com/uefa/Keytopics/kind=512/newsId=402870.html

 

2. UEFA Fine Rangers but take no action against BB (13/04/2006)

http://www.uefa.com/uefa/keytopics/kind=512/newsid=413514.html

 

3. UEFA (Herr Kapl - Spiers' mole) appeal their own decision and over-turn BB decision (24/05/2006)

http://www.uefa.com/uefa/keytopics/kind=512/newsid=424237.html

 

4. Rangers Meet with Fans Groups over said action (RST, Assembly, Association, FF) (08/06/2006)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/low/football/teams/r/rangers/5064472.stm

 

5. Further meeting based on receipt of written UEFA Report (RST, Assembly, FF, TBO) (23/07/2006)

http://www.rangersassembly.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=18&Itemid=41

 

That meeting included the following statement:

 

This meeting coincidently coincided with UEFA’s written grounds for the decision rendered by the Appeal Body in relation to Rangers two Champions League matches against Villarreal. UEFA have issued the Club with certain directives in order to combat sectarianism more efficiently. Firstly the Club has been ‘ordered to announce measurable targets in order to reduce sectarian behaviour amongst its supporters’. Secondly ‘to control their anti-sectarian activities by producing comprehensive statistics that are communicated to the public’. Finally ‘to make a public address announcement at every official fixture, be it international or domestic, stating that any sectarian chanting and any form of ‘Billy Boys’ songs is strictly prohibited.’

 

Did Rangers word it themselves? Did UEFA word it? Did both word it together?

 

All fair questions but the fact is UEFA did punish us so something had to be done. I don't believe Rangers could appeal the UEFA appeal unless they went to the COA.

Edited September 3, 2009 by Frankie

[Big Spliff 0]

Thanks for posting these again Frankie. When you look at how this transpired in the cold light of day, it absolutely stinks - in more than one place.

 

You'll have noticed how UEFA explained in some detail their reasons for not punishing RFC at the first hearing but suddenly overturn it without a similar (or indeed any) explanation. Rangers would definitely been scratching their heads and would definitely have sought an explanation, which hasn't been published to my knowledge.

 

However it is totally clear that the UEFA directive specifically bans TBB - which is very strange, the way it's worded and in the context of the other directives which all enable flexibility for Rangers to decide exactly how to deal with it.

 

Very, very strange.

[Super_Ally 0]

if the club would align itself with the fans, there is no limit to what could be achieved.

 

I see the thread has moved on a lot since I last looked in, but I still think it all comes down to this (above).

 

STS is progressing well. What needs to happen next (and preferably soon before all momentum, and the interest and belief of fans not able to attend meetings, is lost) is for the RSA to decide what to take forward to the club and for the fans to receive something public and tangible from the club.

[maineflyer 0]

Thanks Frankie, I look forward to digesting that lot.