The cry was meek surrender?

[calscot 0]

I agree with all of this but then try to think when was it not thus? We went from Celtic's 9IAR to the short lived successful Wallace spell to an 8 year gap for winning the league to our 9IAR, to overspending for Advocaat and plummeting into debt, to sporadic implausible triumphs during times of financial crisis.

 

The most stable time was 9iAR - mostly under Murray and Smith, and ironically THAT wasn't good enough for the fans (including me), we got used to it and demanded European glory which never arrived. That demand was shared by our owner and combined with his egotistical financial recklessness as well as a manager who is a football equivalent of a shopaholic, is what was the beginning of the fall to our current predicament.

 

We're a club which has not had proper stability since probably the days of Struth.

 

If we are to move into such an era, it will be, due to the modern context, a completely new philosophy. We will have to continue to be financially prudent while investing enough to compete - and all during an ever increasing financial gap between us and the big five of Europe who are being joined by a couple of former Soviet heavyweights.

 

I think the best we can hope for is parity with Celtic as I think there will soon come a time, when both are on a level financial playing field for the first time in decades. In that sense we can expect no more than winning about half the time and that we are still competitive when we lose.

 

I doubt there will be room for frosting on the cake that our egos demand, and so our football will struggle to be of an aesthetic standard of the Premiership or times in the past when our players were as good or better than our English counterparts. We'll also be unlikely to compete well in Europe beyond teams who are our financial peers.

 

The sad thing is that as we revert to being a very Scottish club, our indigenous pool of footballing excellence is dwindling more than any other in Europe and shrunk from the great lochs of the past to a mere duck pond.

 

As a Scottish club we'll have no local talent nor money for quality imports - neither will our rivals.

 

This sad future looks to be a very parochial one of a two horse race of mediocre players, unless some deus ex machina miraculously presents itself.

[ascender 352]

The majority of fans still want some sort of success in Europe and remember, those same fans see finishing second in the league as failure. Those are very difficult demands to satisfy if we're ever going to give a new manager the time required to really change things around in terms of the football we play, youth development etc.

 

If a new owner comes in and makes the conscious decision to try a completely new, more mainland European approach to things by hiring the right people, how on earth are they going to be given the required time given the demand for instant success?

 

I know that Rangers will outspend all other teams apart from Celtic which should mean a good manager would be able to achieve 2nd place even during such a time of reconstruction, but given that 2nd isn't good enough, how are we ever going to change things for better in the long term?

[calscot 0]

I admire your optimism mate and we are far from out of it but I really can't see how we can turn this around this time.

 

The danger is that if we give up now, how can we expect our players to fight to the end? A few people gave up the ghost this time last season and were so wrong, so although that doesn't mean it will happen again, it shows it can. Even Marvin was right to tell us to believe.

 

I think with the games in hand, based on our current season, we're about an equivalent of 3pts behind. With their goal difference it's about 3.5 or 4 if you prefer round numbers. That's not exactly an gap to give up on. If nothing else, chasing on the shoulder of an opponent to win a race should be at least a bit exciting. Steve Ovett was always more exciting to watch than Seb Coe. It's nice to win from the front, but sport would be boring if that's all we watched it for.

 

Like you said earlier, even if we lose, as long as we are not too far behind, it's not a disaster. Few teams win three in a row (and this year should really being going for four in a row) and it's not as if they are going for ten.

 

We've won 53 championships which means we've lost more than that in our history. Losing is part of the cycle but it's more tolerable when it's close. Like you also said earlier, it's how we react to it that counts.

 

Struth said it best when in his We Welcome the Chase speech and whatever happened to No Surrender?

 

Our chances may be down to around 40% which although worrying, is perfectly doable, so there is no reason to not be roaring our team on and bringing some belief to the game.

 

There is more to urging a team to win than optimism.

[Frankie 8,187]

Oh, I'm not giving up mate and I'll be cheering the team on as much as the next man come Sunday. For all they are supposed to be a great team, if we'd taken the chances we did have in the last two games (and played so badly) we still could easily have had several goals.

 

A good result on Thursday would certainly help the morale and if I were Smith I'd let the team go out and enjoy/express themselves. We need to score so there's no point in sitting back.

 

St Johnstone will also provide a good test on Sunday but a good win there will hopefully up everyone's confidence.

 

We just need to take each game as it comes, hope we can improve and with a bit of luck perhaps Celtic will have a bad patch as the season closes.

[aweebluesoandso 290]

We've got about as much chance of winning this league as Maurice Edu has of being shortlisted for the Balloon D'or

 

That's an metaphor too far hehe.

[maineflyer 0]

Yip, I don't feel confident enough in the players or manager to turn this around. Meanwhile, Celtic are on a high and don't look like dropping points.

 

This makes our reaction all the more important - not just to fight for the title but to plan for not winning it. The buck then goes to those above the manager given season ticket sales are almost upon us.

 

Something has to give - be it a takeover or the existing owner coming out of hiding. The status quo simply cannot go on.

 

Unfortunately, as we've seen for over a decade, the status quo can indeed go on, no matter how painful the consequences. There is only one thing can put an end to this and there's absolutely no imperative for that to happen.

[maineflyer 0]

We've got about as much chance of winning this league as Maurice Edu has of being shortlisted for the Balloon D'or

 

You know, you get no prizes here for being accurate, only for appearing to be moderate.