Slightly concerned about feedback from Green's NI trip

[D'Artagnan 173]

Is it not more a case of... OO = feek all to do with Rangers

 

Well I think it was you yourself Max who mentioned the word context. The context of the whole discussion topic which you opened was that it came from Rangers supporters in Northern Ireland.

 

I asked you earlier if you had ever read "Faithful Tribe" by Ruth Dudley Edwards. There is probably no better work of literature which fully explains the significance and the role of the Orange Order in Northern Ireland and its significance within the Protestant community. A community which of course presents the second biggest Rangers supporting city outside Glasgow.

 

I have a suspicion that the request for an Orange top was not to identify with exclusively the Orange Order, but to represent the whole Protestant community in Northern Ireland - but as I say thats just my opinion based on what I have read.

[Max Rebo's Big Blue Nose 0]

Well I think it was you yourself Max who mentioned the word context. The context of the whole discussion topic which you opened was that it came from Rangers supporters in Northern Ireland.

 

I asked you earlier if you had ever read "Faithful Tribe" by Ruth Dudley Edwards. There is probably no better work of literature which fully explains the significance and the role of the Orange Order in Northern Ireland and its significance within the Protestant community. A community which of course presents the second biggest Rangers supporting city outside Glasgow.

 

I have a suspicion that the request for an Orange top was not to identify with exclusively the Orange Order' date=' but to represent the whole Protestant community in Northern Ireland - but as I say thats just my opinion based on what I have read.[/quote']

 

 

 

Fair points D'artganan. Sorry I missed the book tip from your previous post (i'm kind of speed reading post tbh). I'll look it up. Cheers dude

[calscot 0]

Ha ha ha ha - What complete and utter shite and you fuckin know it!! The 'class' card was played when someone suggested we pander to the middle classes who are staying away as 'we don't have our PR right yet'. I said fuck them as Rangers is not and never should be divided into classes. Read the posts before posting inaccuracies, but why let the truth get in the way?

 

The bit in bold is the most classist thing said on this forum. You are classist and it's there to see.

 

Why shouldn't we try to appeal to ALL classes? You say we shouldn't divide them and do just that.

[calscot 0]

Oh really ?

 

Then perhaps you would do well to look a bit harder next time before you suggest Im either "misreading" or "making up posts to be offended"

 

Yes, you certainly do have to look hard - so how does one sentence mean it's "prevalent" in a thread of 180 posts? You certainly are misreading or making it up and now providing the evidence. Show me over 90 references to OO being sectarian or one each of half the posters if you want to try to argue your way out of it. "prevailing attitude expressed throughout" indeed.

[Anchorman 0]

The bit in bold is the most classist thing said on this forum. You are classist and it's there to see.

 

Why shouldn't we try to appeal to ALL classes? You say we shouldn't divide them and do just that.

 

People can always interpret words in any way they like and you are free to do that if it pleases you. You see, I interpret your comment "Why shouldn't we try to appeal to ALL classes" as you saying we don't at the moment, and that we should in some way change to fit certain classes. I SAY WE DO APPEAL TO ALL CLASSES NOW. I know plenty of people from all walks of life who are happy with how we are.

I'm only using the 'middle class' phrase to keep it in context with how it was raised. You can remove the phrase from my comment and replace it with 'anybody' i.e. ANYBODY who is fickle enough to stay away because our PR isn't right can fuck off in my eyes.

[andy steel 0]

People can always interpret words in any way they like and you are free to do that if it pleases you. You see, I interpret your comment "Why shouldn't we try to appeal to ALL classes" as you saying we don't at the moment, and that we should in some way change to fit certain classes. I SAY WE DO APPEAL TO ALL CLASSES NOW. I know plenty of people from all walks of life who are happy with how we are.

I'm only using the 'middle class' phrase to keep it in context with how it was raised. You can remove the phrase from my comment and replace it with 'anybody' i.e. ANYBODY who is fickle enough to stay away because our PR isn't right can fuck off in my eyes.

 

Bit of a contradiction there, though, Anchorman - on the one hand, this issue is about a golden thread (or whatever was on the LP) of our history - and therefore vital to those who dig that sort of stuff - but for fans who don't care for it, it becomes a minor issue of fickleness over PR.

 

We have to admit that other fans have different league tables of what is vital and what is meaningless and there's little point berating others simply because they view life differently from ourselves.

 

Btw, a word of praise for Gersnet in allowing this thread to evolve - sure there will be hard words but it's an emotive subject and very hard to get to the heart of it we have to dance on eggshells all the time. Maybe the mods are all just at work, though!

Edited October 1, 2012 by andy steel

[calscot 0]

People can always interpret words in any way they like and you are free to do that if it pleases you. You see, I interpret your comment "Why shouldn't we try to appeal to ALL classes" as you saying we don't at the moment, and that we should in some way change to fit certain classes. I SAY WE DO APPEAL TO ALL CLASSES NOW. I know plenty of people from all walks of life who are happy with how we are.

I'm only using the 'middle class' phrase to keep it in context with how it was raised. You can remove the phrase from my comment and replace it with 'anybody' i.e. ANYBODY who is fickle enough to stay away because our PR isn't right can fuck off in my eyes.

 

Maybe you need to word things in a way where infer what you really mean. But I still don't agree with your attitude - we've been shafted by one and all with the "fuck em" attitude. Sometimes when you find out everyone thinks you're a cunt it's time to look in the mirror and perhaps make the odd change.

[Anchorman 0]

Maybe you need to word things in a way where infer what you really mean.

 

Aye right you are chief! I will make more effort.

[Anchorman 0]

Bit of a contradiction there, though, Anchorman - on the one hand, this issue is about a golden thread (or whatever was on the LP) of our history - and therefore vital to those who dig that sort of stuff - but to those who don't, it becomes a minor issue of fickleness over PR.

 

We have to admit that other fans have different league tables of what is vital and what is meaningless and there's little point berating others simply because they view life differently from ourselves.

 

Btw, a word of praise for Gersnet in allowing this thread to evolve - sure there will be hard words but it's an emotive subject and very hard to get to the heart of it we have to dance on eggshells all the time. Maybe the mods are all just at work, though!

 

Andy, the LP details were put on there to show why some people may hold on to [dotted line] links to the OO i.e. the lines were a bit more solid in previous years. I have not come out ONCE on this thread to say I am strongly on any side of the arguement. If I have show me the quote and I will gladly apologise. Where I have got my shackles up is the suggestion that certain people might come to the table as fans if we get our PR right. If they were the type of fans I want they would be here now having this heated debate with us - not staying away until we get our house in order. We will agree to differ on that point as we are obviously not going to agree on the 'stay way until PR is right' debate.

[der Berliner 3,259]

What people should always keep in mind, no matter how we see this or what our allegiances are, having an orange strip will be seen as a direct link to and celebration of the OO, (primarily) Ulster Protestantism and thus - in the warped public perception - bigotry and like it or not sectarianism. No matter what the actual truth is, how sectrianism or bigotry is actually defined or what it means. The ("well-guided") public does not look any further. And while I sure see many who will whole-heartedly disagree, present the "We don't care" or "why should we have them dominate our beliefs/traditions" attitude, you do have to ask: Is this really something Rangers FC needs at this moment and time? No-one asks about forgetting traditions that were groomed over generations of support, or even decry them as unappropriate. But if we have to celebrate them, let it do it in a right way at a right time ... and most of all in a way that makes absolutely certain what we mean by e.g. having an orange strip.