Bluedell 5,329 Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Now none of us would associate supporting the British army with the Tims or with overt Unionism yet I'd venture more of their support are committed to voting 'No' in September than ours. They are at least as enthusiastic about the Union as we are. I'd venture that the above statements are totally wrong. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangersitis 0 Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Exactly. I think it's difficult to argue against the concept that it's the Club's supporters who form the majority of the Club's identity, especially when we've repeatedly been told over the years by incumbent regimes at Ibrox that as a support we represent the Club and are an intrinsic part of it, so need to act (behave) accordingly. Even in times like these where large swathes of fans feel separated & disenfranchised from the current regime running the Club, those very same fans are every bit as much a part of the fabric of the Club as ever before. If Rangers had ever to move to a new stadium it would still be Rangers. If the Club's crest changed again - which it's done numerous times in our history - it would still be Rangers, but without the fans, there would be no Rangers. I tend to agree with you on this point. The days of the directors/club staff being in tune with the rank and file of the support are long gone. It may be a bit off-topic, but looking at your points above, where would you stand on the formation of an FC Rangers of Glasgow type set-up? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Artagnan 173 Posted August 26, 2014 Author Share Posted August 26, 2014 For any salesman to be successful, the first thing he learns is 'know your product'. It looks like our investors missed that step.If as you say Zappa " but without the fans, there would be no Rangers.", then maybe the board and investors should let the fans do what pleases them, i.e. be the kind of Rangers' fans they want to be. I would ask of any of these fans who make the 'politically correct' argument, and who constantly tell us that there is nothing in the future but doom and gloom, to ask themselves how they would describe the perfect environment for bringing the fans back. Is it great football every game? Is it a manager that 'they' would be happy with? Is it a support who don't sing anything close to anything that can offend anyone? Some want a board who are fiscally responsible, some want a board to lead us on a campaign of regaining our money and status by taking legal steps to avenge us. Some want new owners, ... ad infinitum. Nobody seems to know what they do want but plenty are keen to tell us what they don't want. Every time you turn round, as a fan, there are numerous reasons being put forth not to go to the game. Hildy may be right when he says, 'The club that more senior fans grew up with probably ceased to be even before our current troubles', but if he is then he needs to lead his generation back to what the older fans grew up with. You see, if I can bend a phrase, I think there are too many indians and not enough chiefs. If we can look at the investors as using the board as their salesmen, then the first thing they have to do being in the West of Scotland, if I can steal a phrase from the east end, is bring back the thunder. Before we can be a force once again in Europe we must first dominate our own back yard. To do that we need a winning team on the field and a support who are enthusiastic, show pride in their team, and feel that it is their team that they are rooting for. I remember as a boy being lifted over the turnstiles and the anticipation of the kick off was palpable. We were there to support our team, have an enjoyable experience, and leave the game wishing that next week was tomorrow. The difference between then and now is we had responsible owners and we left the managing , and politicing, of the club to the board. We just supported the team, with no boycotts or card displays or anything else that would hurt the team. I realise after all of the turmoil and changes of the last few years things are different and as a support we must be vigilant. However, too many complaints coming from too many sources with too many solutions are cancelling each other out. If this club is to survive the fans must own the club again, not necessarily in stocks, but at least in their hearts and minds. In this regard, a return to our roots, or even a new mantra, needs to be encouraged by the leadership of the club. A new accord, and level of respect, between the leadership of the club and the support needs to be established I know Ive ticked the thanks/agree boxes but that is not enough. Thats is one of the most outstanding summations I have ever seen Barca. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barca72 440 Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Bluedell, Quote Originally Posted by amms View Post Now none of us would associate supporting the British army with the Tims or with overt Unionism yet I'd venture more of their support are committed to voting 'No' in September than ours. Quote Originally Posted by Hildy View Post They are at least as enthusiastic about the Union as we are. I'd venture that the above statements are totally wrong. Bluedell, I would concur with your assessment, and offer this video and article, as an indication of the other side's recruitment policy ... http://www.belfastte...t-30535029.html Ardoyne Fleadh: Outrage after 'Irish rebel band' accused of making 'hate speech and glorifying IRA' at event 25 August 2014 There have been calls to pull public funding from a north Belfast festival after a band were accused of making a 'hate speech' and 'glorifying terrorism'. Thousands attended the annual Ardoyne Fleadh festival on Sunday night. In a speech during the show, a member of an Irish 'rebel band' told the audience there are "still over 5,000 British soldiers parading around the streets of Ireland as if they owned it" and "it's about time they got their Orange comrades together...and f****d off back to England". The band then perform two tracks - including the 'The Celtic Symphony' - which features 'pro-IRA' chanting. A video of the group performing has been widely circulated online. DUP councillor Lee Reynolds said he had "submitted a formal complaint to the PSNI about the anti-British and anti-Protestant hate speech and the glorification of terrorism at this event". "This turn of events came as no surprise to the DUP and was one of the reasons why we have opposed the licensing of this event," he said He said the "type of behaviour" shown should be "considered justifiable grounds for the withdrawal of all public funding". Police have said they received a complaint and enquiries were ongoing. A spokesman for the Ardoyne Fleadh has not yet responded. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barca72 440 Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 double post. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barca72 440 Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 I know Ive ticked the thanks/agree boxes but that is not enough. Thats is one of the most outstanding summations I have ever seen Barca. I am glad we are coming down the same road on this, bud. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie 8,146 Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 I know Ive ticked the thanks/agree boxes but that is not enough. Thats is one of the most outstanding summations I have ever seen Barca. I agree - it's an excellent and heart-felt appraisal. IIRC, within this book (and in Follow We Will), the authors talk about a Rangers Constitution and this has been mentioned by the club as well (possibly pre-AGM last year). This is the type of thing that would be a reasonable first step towards addressing the estranged nature of the fans and club. Not to make politics or religion or anything else the foundation for supporting Rangers but merely acknowledging the links and examining how such links can affect the future. I'm not sure this will happen in the short term or even if it should be considered a priority but in an era where money is as important as its ever been, the relationship between fan and club has to be more than the customer one Martin Bain used to speak of. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangersitis 0 Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Bluedell,Quote Originally Posted by amms View Post Now none of us would associate supporting the British army with the Tims or with overt Unionism yet I'd venture more of their support are committed to voting 'No' in September than ours. Quote Originally Posted by Hildy View Post They are at least as enthusiastic about the Union as we are. I'd venture that the above statements are totally wrong. Bluedell, I would concur with your assessment, and offer this video and article, as an indication of the other side's recruitment policy ... http://www.belfastte...t-30535029.html Ardoyne Fleadh: Outrage after 'Irish rebel band' accused of making 'hate speech and glorifying IRA' at event 25 August 2014 There have been calls to pull public funding from a north Belfast festival after a band were accused of making a 'hate speech' and 'glorifying terrorism'. Thousands attended the annual Ardoyne Fleadh festival on Sunday night. In a speech during the show, a member of an Irish 'rebel band' told the audience there are "still over 5,000 British soldiers parading around the streets of Ireland as if they owned it" and "it's about time they got their Orange comrades together...and f****d off back to England". The band then perform two tracks - including the 'The Celtic Symphony' - which features 'pro-IRA' chanting. A video of the group performing has been widely circulated online. DUP councillor Lee Reynolds said he had "submitted a formal complaint to the PSNI about the anti-British and anti-Protestant hate speech and the glorification of terrorism at this event". "This turn of events came as no surprise to the DUP and was one of the reasons why we have opposed the licensing of this event," he said He said the "type of behaviour" shown should be "considered justifiable grounds for the withdrawal of all public funding". Police have said they received a complaint and enquiries were ongoing. A spokesman for the Ardoyne Fleadh has not yet responded. The second link didn't work for me, and while there are issues surrounding public funding of such an event, attempting to link a republican shindig in Ardoyne to likely voting patterns in a Scottish Independence poll is a bit of a stretch. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannochsidebear 2,306 Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 I'd venture that the above statements are totally wrong. I agree with BD here, as the vast majority of tims I know are voting yes, or at the very least being pressurised into voting yes by their peers. One even gave a reason for voting yes that it would mean we would have to stop flying the Union flag as there would be no Union. It also seems that the more "staunch" the tim is, the more adamant the Yes vote is. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplythebest 0 Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 High profile tims like George Galloway, John Reid and Jim Murphy are against it but in my experience it seems most of their fans are for it, although on the other hand they then complain about the Scottish government's sectarian laws. Irony. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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