CammyF 7,886 Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 Well there is actually no point in me speaking to you then and as far as i can see so is every word anybody else has to say. It just seems to go WHOOSH right over the top of you as much i as i can make out gersfem, I wouldn't worry about as some of us obviously don't measure up to some others expectations of 'Scots' and 'Rangers' fans. I mean, speaking personally, I am a Scot who loves his country, who wears his national dress, who supports his country at rugby, cricket, athletics etc but isn't blind to our wee countries problems. I am also proud of my wee countries ties to the UK and our neighbours England, Wales and NI.... I am a Rangers fan who lives and breathes Rangers, who follows them all over the world and probably wrongly, puts Rangers before everything apart from my immediate family. But hey, thats just not good enough for some folks... Cammy F 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 Try reading them again ; I quote So where is the sections, some, in there then Calscot? Cammy F I agree it's not there but if you read my posts it's implied although here I would say the implication is that I think [most] Rangers fans that sing it generally do it to wind up the Tims rather than any great love for the Queen (although I do think many like to think they love the Queen as that's what they think Rangers fans are supposed to do). I have no direct evidence of this but it is my belief before you ask me how I know this. I will catagorically admit that I do not think ALL Rangers fans do this and some actually do love the queen. if that helps clarify things. If you wanted to argue on that semantic point you could have done so and I'd have retracted it and clarified it. I can't be too explicit all the time as my posts are long enough at it is! To be honest I think you do understand what I'm saying and I think you'd be hard pushed to make people believe that a high proportion of Rangers fans love the queen so much that they often spontaneously break into the national anthem. If the Tims found themselves a sense of humour and started joining in, it would soon die out. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CammyF 7,886 Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 although here I would say the implication is that I think [most] Rangers fans that sing it generally do it to wind up the Tims rather than any great love for the Queen (although I do think many like to think they love the Queen as that's what they think Rangers fans are supposed to do). Can't agree with this - there are many instituations that our fans have ties to that sing GSTQ - not out of a love for the Queen necesarily, but out of a respect for the Union. I can think of the OO, The BB's, The Church Of Scotland, Girl Guides etc that all have ties to GSTQ and the Union Flag. Or maybe these organisations sing the national anthem to antagonise the tims.... I honestly believe that this is the only country (and I mean the UK) where singing the national anthem and flying the flag is seen as antagonisic and some how 'wrong'..... To be honest I think you do understand what I'm saying and I think you'd be hard pushed to make people believe that a high proportion of Rangers fans love the queen so much that they often spontaneously break into the national anthem. It is my understanding that a great amount of Rangers fans have had 'exposure' to GSTQ BEFORE they went to Ibrox - be it from assembly at School, the BB's, Scouts, Girl Guides, Church etc so maybe youjr perception is wrong Calscot. Cammy F 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 Well there is actually no point in me speaking to you then and as far as i can see so is every word anybody else has to say. It just seems to go WHOOSH right over the top of you as much i as i can make out Well maybe it's just the people who seem to think I'm attacking them and calling them "Big bad Rangers fans" or "not good enough to be Scottish" when all I'm doing is trying to apply a sociological principle to explain certain types of group behaviour. That really does go WHOOSH! 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CammyF 7,886 Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 Well maybe it's just the people who seem to think I'm attacking them and calling them "Big bad Rangers fans" or "not good enough to be Scottish" when all I'm doing is trying to apply a sociological principle to explain certain types of group behaviour. That really does go WHOOSH! Or maybe some see you using 'sociological principle' to mask a racsit attack on a 7 year boy, when in reality, it was simply a racist crime....... Or maybe some see you using ''sociological principle' to mask the fact that Scotland has major social issues including racism and violence that are inflamed by comments from the first minister. Or maybe using phrases like 'sociological principle' has some (not naming names) thinking you fancy yourself as the GersNet Graeme Spiers.... However, I think the best course of action would be for you to take a trip up to Ibrox Calscot and see for yourself that the vast majority of us aren;t a cross between Tim Brook Taylor and Ian Paisley with a bit of Michael Carroll thrown in... Cammy F 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 Can't agree with this - there are many instituations that our fans have ties to that sing GSTQ - not out of a love for the Queen necesarily, but out of a respect for the Union. I can think of the OO, The BB's, The Church Of Scotland, Girl Guides etc that all have ties to GSTQ and the Union Flag. Or maybe these organisations sing the national anthem to antagonise the tims.... I doubt these institutions sing anything to delibrately antagonise anyone. I don't think the same can be said of Rangers fans - do you? I honestly believe that this is the only country (and I mean the UK) where singing the national anthem and flying the flag is seen as antagonisic and some how 'wrong'..... The ironic thing here is that in my opinion it is Rangers fans [not all of them] themselves that see it as antagonistic! I think the colours of the UJ have a lot to do with Rangers fans flying it. If it was green, white and gold I don't think you'd get any in the home crowd at Ibrox. It is my understanding that a great amount of Rangers fans have had 'exposure' to GSTQ BEFORE they went to Ibrox - be it from assembly at School, the BB's, Scouts, Girl Guides, Church etc so maybe youjr perception is wrong Calscot. Possibly, but my experience must be different, I didn't know any kids in Assembly or the BB's or Church who were actually happy to sing GSTQ (although I don't actually remember singing it much at all - even in those places). Most kids hated assembly completely and only went to the BB's for the games and football. I didn't know many kids who enjoyed going to church either. But if your theory is correct, how come ALL supporters of Scottish teams don't seem to sing it? Surely many of them have had a similar upbringing? I do rembember singing lots of hymns at assembly, at the BB's and at church but I don't hear any of them being sung at Ibrox and some are far more rousing than GSTQ. And after all, many are supposedly proud to be protestant christians. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 Or maybe some see you using 'sociological principle' to mask a racsit attack on a 7 year boy, when in reality, it was simply a racist crime....... A racist crime does not require the wearing of a football top. You are jumping to conclusions. If the guy goes around attacking anyone with an English accent - then I'll agree it's a racist crime. But appart from that, the socialogical principle I've been using EXPLAINS racist attacks rather than masking them. Or maybe some see you using ''sociological principle' to mask the fact that Scotland has major social issues including racism and violence that are inflamed by comments from the first minister. I think most this is your opinion rather than a fact and again the principle explains a reason behind the social issues rather than masking them. It gives us a better understanding. I think Scotland has sociological problems including racism but I think that people (including the first Minister) not supporting England is not really a part of it that concerns me. Or maybe using phrases like 'sociological principle' has some (not naming names) thinking you fancy yourself as the GersNet Graeme Spiers.... Nice bit of inverse snobbery there. I've explained my interpretation of the principle as I feel it applies to football fans, if you want to call it something else then feel free to do so, I think the phrase is fairly descriptive of what I was talking about. Cammy are you trying to get a point across or do you just like finding new ways of insulting people? However, I think the best course of action would be for you to take a trip up to Ibrox Calscot and see for yourself that the vast majority of us aren;t a cross between Tim Brook Taylor and Ian Paisley with a bit of Michael Carroll thrown in... I've been to Ibrox many times as well as away games and I never said anyone was this... You've a cheek to compare me to Graeme Speirs - the guy that quotes people out of context from Follow Follow, when you do the same! 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CammyF 7,886 Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 I doubt these institutions sing anything to delibrately antagonise anyone. I don't think the same can be said of Rangers fans - do you? Off course some will, its what football fans do...... But that doesn't take away from the fact that you are generalising that most (your word not mine) aren't patriotic and proud of the Union and The Queen. How you have come to this conclusion is beyond me. Most Rangers fans I know are unionists (with a small u) and very patriotic of Scotland and of Great Britain - but maybe the ones I know are the antagonisic ones. If it was green, white and gold I don't think you'd get any in the home crowd at Ibrox. But it isn't, its red, white and blue so we'll never know. However, green and white NI tops and flags are common place at Ibrox (and green and white are Craptic colours not green white and gold as you were implying). Possibly, but my experience must be different, I didn't know any kids in Assembly or the BB's or Church who were actually happy to sing GSTQ (although I don't actually remember singing it much at all - even in those places). Must have been different at my school / BB's Calscot. If we didn't attend Church we weren't allowed to play football. Everything anout our BB's was based around attending Church - at one point, we have over 150 members - same at school, the national anthem was sang with great gusto by those of us in the BB's, Bible Class, The Scouts etc. And if you can remember actually singing it much, how can you manage to remember the level of happiness and acceptance of the singers..... But if your theory is correct, how come ALL supporters of Scottish teams don't seem to sing it? Surely many of them have had a similar upbringing? That is something that you'll have to ask them, but I can tell you that many Scottish clubs fans still carry the Union Flag - Hearts, Motherwell, Dundee, Falkirk, DAFC (as well as england flag), Airdrie etc, etc and QSTQ used to be sung at Scotland games and cup finals. do rembember singing lots of hymns at assembly, at the BB's and at church but I don't hear any of them being sung at Ibrox and some are far more rousing than GSTQ. And after all, many are supposedly proud to be protestant christians. Again Calscot, The Anchor is a favourite tune played and sung by The Blue Order band / section..... it was a hymn the last time I looked at the Bible. As I said Calscot, you have a particularly negative view of the vast majority of Rangers supporters. I urge you to get back to Ibrox and dispell these notions that you have of us. Cammy F 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CammyF 7,886 Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 A racist crime does not require the wearing of a football top. You are jumping to conclusions. If the guy goes around attacking anyone with an English accent - then I'll agree it's a racist crime. But appart from that, the socialogical principle I've been using EXPLAINS racist attacks rather than masking them. Again, Calscot, for someone who claims people read what they want from your posts, you do the same. Read my posts again - this is a racist crime - simple as that - the guy shouted 'This is Scotland you English ******' whilst hitting him - nothing to do with football - just a racist scumbag who you seem to be a pains to 'defend' I think most this is your opinion rather than a fact and again the principle explains a reason behind the social issues rather than masking them. It gives us a better understanding. Its not opinon Calscot, its fact - racist crime up 11% in Scotland.... Cammy are you trying to get a point across or do you just like finding new ways of insulting people? I don't remember ever insulting anyone Calscot I've been to Ibrox many times as well as away games and I never said anyone was this... Yes you did - a few pages ago - it was you I quoted the text from Here is YOUR entire post Ah, but Rangers fans don't actually sing it for any real pride in Britain reasons, do they? They only do it to get up the noses of the Tims - just like most of our repertoire... Some people love to buy into this "in crowd" identity thing and go the whole hog with their football team and so with Rangers that seems to mean being a loyalist/royalist, anti-Catholic, anti-Irish, a unionist, a Tory voter, pretending to be a member of the orange lodge, a prod (whatever that is), an Anglophile, a Boyne celebrator, an Ulster-man, a pope fetishist, etc, etc. Oh yeah, you have to hate anything to do with Celtic with all your passion. Their role model must be a cross between Tim Brook Taylor and Ian Paisley with a bit of Michael Carroll thrown in... You've a cheek to compare me to Graeme Speirs - the guy that quotes people out of context from Follow Follow, when you do the same! Where have I ever quoted anyone from Follow Follow out of context Calscot? In fact, I can't remember quoting anyone from here out of context.... Cammy F 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 Thanks for quoting my post it clearly shows I said "Some people['s]... role model must be..." If you read it properly you would see it was also a bit of humour. What's wrong with the first two comparisons anyway? In the Goodies, TBT was a UJ wearing royalist who was a big tory supporter... Ian Paisley is a proud Ulsterman, Unionist and church going protestant... I wouldn't like to be compared to them as I'm none of that but why should you be so offended? The third guy is a bit of a pratt but some Rangers fans are no angels. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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