Bluedell 5,346 Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 I usually don’t go on other teams’ fans’ forums but I’ve had a little look at Hibs and Dundees’ over the past few weeks and I see there still some on there going on about the new club crap. Following on from the cub’s statement last week, I thought it may be useful to refute the logic of some of their crazy arguments. 1. “Rangers 1872-2012” – How does that work? The company that is being liquidated was formed in 1899, so it only formed part of the club’s history. We support a club, not a company. We were a club before oldco was formed in 1899 and we are a club after 2012. Dundee was formed in 1893 and their company incorporated in 1900. Hibs founded in 1875 and their company in 1903. Celtic founded in 1888 and their company in 1897. Are fans discounting their own history before their club’s own companies were formed or are they hypocrites? 2. “You’re Sevco” – So that makes Celtic HMS (402) limited? Rangers changed the company which plays the games for the club from oldco to newco, but so did Celtic. Celtic FC Limited (formerly HMS (402) limited was formed in 2001 and is the company which has the principal activity of “operation of a professional football club”. There’s further details of Celtic’s various companies here http://www.gersnetonline.co.uk/vb/showthread.php?39968-So-which-Celtic-company-do-we-play-against&p=304634 Celtic changed the company that operates their football club in 2002. We did it in 2012. So what? Lots of clubs have done it over the years. 3. “It’s not Rangers, it’s the Rangers” – This relates to Charles Green announcing that the new company was to be The Rangers Football Club and many jumped on that as being different from Rangers. Only one problem with that. Oldco was also “The Rangers Football Club”. Our company name has always had “the” in it. Interestingly Dundee FC’s company also uses “the”. Their company is “The Dundee Football Club Limited”. I don’t need legal arguments or FIFA/UEFA/SFA to confirm we’re the same club. There’s just not a sensible argument to suggest that we’re not. The whole “new club” issue may be a good wind-up for other fans but I’ve yet to see any kind of logical argument to suggest that we are, and I believe that deep-down, they all know that we’re the same club that we’ve always been as well although they could never admit it to themselves. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7 5,190 Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 If we weren't the same old Rangers they wouldn't be so bothered, would they? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
True_Ger_1872 2 Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Despite sound reasoning that includes the points listed above and multitudes of supporting evidence - there are some right deluded individuals who actually believe the new club charade. Tedious individuals. I believe that it was started upon the newspaper articles around 2012 which went some way as to ingraining this view in peoples minds. I do chuckle a bit when other clubs fans shout "You're not Rangers any more" then follow up with "Same old Rangers, always cheating"......the mind boggles. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
der Berliner 3,255 Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Still wonder what sort of shit-storm will break lose if the Court of Session, London or otherwise, does not resolve the EBT case in our favour. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aweebluesoandso 290 Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 I had one of them calling us Sevco to my face, it doesn't bother me in the least. Oh and i retorted '' and you are Big Jock Knewco'' he was fecking apolectic though, which goes to show, we can still live with our history, they on the other hand cant. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrahimHemdani 1 Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 (edited) I think the best example is actually Fiorentina who went bust in 2001 but rose again and 7 years later played us in the semi final of the UEFA Cup. The year 2001 heralded major changes for Fiorentina, as the terrible state of the club's finances was revealed: they were unable to pay wages and had debts of around US$50 million. The club's owner, Vittorio Cecchi Gori, was able to raise some more money,[citation needed] but even this soon proved to be insufficient resources to sustain the club. Fiorentina were relegated at the end of the 2001–02 season and went into judicially-controlled administration in June 2002. This form of bankruptcy (sports companies cannot exactly fail in this way in Italy, but they can suffer a similar procedure) meant that the club was refused a place in Serie B for the 2002–03 season, and as a result effectively ceased to exist. The club was promptly re-established in August 2002 as Associazione Calcio Fiorentina e Florentia Viola with shoe and leather entrepreneur Diego Della Valle as new owner and the club was admitted into Serie C2, the fourth tier of Italian football. The only player to remain at the club in its new incarnation was Angelo Di Livio, whose commitment to club's cause further endeared him to the fans. Helped by Di Livio and 30-goal striker Christian Riganò, the club won its Serie C2 group with considerable ease, which would normally have led to a promotion to Serie C1. Due to the bizarre Caso Catania (Catania Case), however, the club skipped Serie C1 and was admitted into Serie B, something that was only made possible by the Italian Football Federation (FIGC)'s decision to resolve the Catania situation by increasing the number of teams in Serie B from 20 to 24 and promoting Fiorentina for "sports merits."[5] In the 2003 off-season, the club also bought back the right to use the Fiorentina name and the famous shirt design, and re-incorporated itself as ACF Fiorentina. The club finished the 2003–04 season in sixth place and won the playoff against Perugia to return to top-flight football. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACF_Fiorentina If you look at the UEFA site they are listed as one Club continuously despite the above. They have a picture of Fiorentina winning their last major trophy, the Coppa Italia, in 2001 then their record. Formed: 1926 Nickname: Viola (Purples) UEFA club competition honours (runners-up in brackets) • European Champion Clubs' Cup: (1957) • UEFA Cup: (1990) • UEFA Cup Winners' Cup (1): 1961, (1962) Domestic honours (most recent triumph in brackets) League title: 2 (1969) Italian Cup: 6 (2001) Ten-year European record (UEFA Cup/UEFA Europa League unless indicated otherwise) 2013/14: round of 16 2012/13: did not take part in UEFA competition 2011/12: did not take part in UEFA competition 2010/11: did not take part in UEFA competition 2009/10: UEFA Champions League round of 16 2008/09: round of 32 (having transferred from the UEFA Champions League group stage) 2007/08: semi-finals 2006/07: did not take part in UEFA competition 2005/06: did not take part in UEFA competition 2004/05: did not take part in UEFA competition http://www.uefa.com/teamsandplayers/teams/club=52817/profile/index.html And similar for us Picture of Graeme Souness and Ally McCoist pictured in 1990 Formed: 1873 Nicknames: The Gers, Teddy Bears, Light Blues UEFA club competition honours (runners-up in brackets) • UEFA Cup Winners' Cup (1): (1961), (1967), 1972 • UEFA Cup: (2008) Domestic honours (most recent triumph in brackets) • League title: 53 (2010) • Scottish Cup: 33 (2009) http://www.uefa.com/teamsandplayers/teams/club=50121/profile/ I don't think any other argument or justification is needed. Edited March 7, 2016 by BrahimHemdani 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhunter 0 Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 its all trumped by the club and plc being the victim of an alleged fraud 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian1964 10,419 Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 I see it as fans who call us a new club are just too thick to know the differnce between a club and a company who runs the club,or they do it just wind us up,either way it doesn't bother me,I just laugh at them 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyforres80 0 Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 What they don't realise is the insolvency act gave the administrator the power to sell club separately, for some reason the press have continually acted as if it was club that was liquidated not the company. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Dynamo 128 Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 It's the only thing they can say "but your club died" Honestly I couldn't care less what they think or anybody else for that matter. They'll all continue to find some stick to try and beat with us with, one way or another. Jealousy is a terrible thing. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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