Germinal 27 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 So basically nobody has the slightest piece of credible evidence that Thatcher knew.... The idea of believing football fans, from Liverpool at that, over police officers would never have crossed her mind. That's the mind set which enables corruption because, no matter the evidence, you know you will be backed up and so can do whatever you like. So I doubt she knew but she, and her idiot lap dogs like Ingham, must shoulder blame for being so blindly unquestioning for so long. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buster. 4,808 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 The idea of believing football fans, from Liverpool at that, over police officers would never have crossed her mind. That's the mind set which enables corruption because, no matter the evidence, you know you will be backed up and so can do whatever you like. So I doubt she knew but she, and her idiot lap dogs like Ingham, must shoulder blame for being so blindly unquestioning for so long. Thatcher had been an interested party in a cover-up for the actions of the same police force a few years ealier when the same Chief Constable was in charge, ie. events surrounding the 'battle of Orgreave' during the miners strike. Thatcher was no fool and the idea that she was clueless and innocent about what had been going on and in particular the decision to focus blame on the football fans for the worst sporting disaster in UK history is ridiculous. Her spindoctor/press officer Bernard Ingham is on record of adopting the line regards focus of blame and spindoctors DO KNOW what is going on, PERIOD. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie 8,146 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 Thatcher may or may not have ever known the true story but it was her government that led the reaction to the disaster and they should have found out the real story. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RANGERRAB 3,254 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 the no1 priority at football matches should be crowd safety yet in our country today so many are concerned about which words are sung in certain songs 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buster. 4,808 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 Thatcher may or may not have ever known the true story but it was her government that led the reaction to the disaster and they should have found out the real story. The Sun with it's usual style was heavily involved peddling the line regards what was later shown to be a cover-up. Generally newspapers will go with what makes commercial sense but they'll also have a very good idea of the veracity or levels of plausible deniability regards what they print. One of the little known but extremely posionous aspects of Thatchers legacy was that she allowed Rupert Murdoch to begin accumulating the undemocratic levels of toxic influence...... How Thatcher and Murdoch made their secret deal The coup that transformed the relationship between British politics and journalism began at a quiet Sunday lunch at Chequers, the official country retreat of the prime minister, Margaret Thatcher. She was trailing in the polls, caught in a recession she had inherited, eager for an assured cheerleader at a difficult time. Her guest had an agenda too. He was Rupert Murdoch, eager to secure her help in acquiring control of nearly 40% of the British press. Both parties got what they wanted............... Full article at http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/apr/28/how-margaret-thatcher-and-rupert-murdoch-made-secret-deal 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedell 5,329 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 The idea of believing football fans, from Liverpool at that, over police officers would never have crossed her mind. That's the mind set which enables corruption because, no matter the evidence, you know you will be backed up and so can do whatever you like. So I doubt she knew but she, and her idiot lap dogs like Ingham, must shoulder blame for being so blindly unquestioning for so long. A reasonable assessment, but likewise there's blame attached to other governments for allowing it to go on for so long. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buster. 4,808 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 A reasonable assessment, but likewise there's blame attached to other governments for allowing it to go on for so long. The political class and culture have become toxic and less democratic. Much of this is connected to Thatchers legacy. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Dynamo 128 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 The Tory Government of the time hated Liverpool they were prepared to "manage the decline" of the city after the riots in the early 80's. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMc 2,463 Posted April 28, 2016 Author Share Posted April 28, 2016 A reasonable assessment, but likewise there's blame attached to other governments for allowing it to go on for so long. I wasn't trying to make any political points in the original post, I was simply getting angrier and angrier as Tuesday went on and the day and its aftermath were discussed and analysed again and was moved to write about it instead of ranting about it to my bewildered wife and children. I'm actually ambivalent as to the causes of the disaster, it was a different era and things have now, thankfully, improved. People made mistakes, didn't do their jobs properly or didn't understand the consequences of their decisions. That's the case with almost all disasters and as we can't turn back time we can only learn from them and ensure they don't happen again. My anger is aimed at those who chose to cover up the causes and who perpetuated the lie over who was responsible. That's unforgivable. As others have said much of the culture that allowed that to happen was created by the government of the time. Freedom of Information requests have proved that Thatcher was misled as to the disaster's causes, she was lied too by senior policemen and accepted their version without question. She seemed to find it inconceivable that the authorities might be wrong or that she might be lied too, despite testimony to the contrary from junior officers and appeals from the Secretary of the Merseyside Police Federation. Thatcher had no feel for sport and disliked football, her governments response to Hillsborough was to try and introduce compulsory ID cards, an Orwellian reaction that fundamentally misunderstood the problem. I'm probably more angry at her predecessor John Major. Major was a football fan, and a genuine one too by all accounts. He should have understood better, he should have empathised if, as we're led to believe, he'd attended Stamford Bridge regularly. Successive governments have, thankfully, dealt with Hillsborough differently, through to the current one and that should be welcomed. However, for me, the mind-set that allowed Hillsborough to happen still exists, football supporters are not treated in the same way as other members of society. What i'm not sure is if the culture that allowed lies and cover-ups to flourish is still as prevalent. Here's hoping we never find out. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete 2,499 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 A reasonable assessment, but likewise there's blame attached to other governments for allowing it to go on for so long. Two wrongs don't make a right and the original cover-up set the trend. It would not be a cover-up for the next government they would just not be chasing the truth, the cover-up had already taken place. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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