If YOU were Mark Warburton

[JFK-1 1,670]

Sorry JFK. I live here and certainly don't subscribe to this sick nation nonsense. Take football out of the equation and I don't see it. Even comparing Scotland to whatever is happening in NI is something I don't get. Religion of the Christian variety is dying in Scotland and will be non existent in 2/3 generations IMO. Outwith football can you please provide examples of the sectarianism that is all around? I'm not being arsey but I just don't see it

 

I don't think for a moment you're being 'arsey' so don't worry about that. Religion hasn't been a big thing as such in Scotland or Britain as a whole for that matter in decades. Last I heard barely 6% of the population ever attend any type of Church services outside maybe a wedding so if you're talking about people having disagreements over any religious tenets that's not an issue. They're not religious.

 

The problem is in Scotland as in Northern Ireland it's evolved into a state more like tribalism where the 'adherents' for want of a better word despite not being the least bit religious still partake in a 'them and us' mentality possibly largely due to the British/Irish thing which though it once had a more religious element doesn't so much anymore but still exists at the same intensity in a different manner.

 

I remember my first job which was in a steel mill in Motherwell way back in the 1970's and working beside a young guy in there who would say things like if Scotland and Ireland went to war I would be fighting with Ireland. And that despite the fact he had been born in Scotland and had lived there all his life. That's got nothing to do with football and that mentality is still every bit as evident as it was then. Any football element is simply another avenue for them to express that mentality.

 

That's not going away anytime soon even if religion disappeared entirely. And incidentally where in Scotland are you from? I came from South Lanarkshire which has always been a hotbed of sectarian bile.

[StuGers 477]

I agree. It has morphed from a religious thing to a tribal thing which is associated with religion however is not fully dependant on it.

 

There seems to be some weird love in with Ireland which is very strange to me. I probably have more Irish roots than most of these plastic paddies (grandmother's side were from Southern Ireland, including a Catholic priest!) but I feel absolutely no affinity with any country other than the one of my birth.

 

It seems now that it is acceptable for open hatred of anything non-Irish / non-nationalist / pro-British / Protestant in Scotland with very little repercussion due to the government that we have let truly bed in.

[alexscottislegend 2,057]

Coincidentally I was listening to a Radio 4 programme this morning which was talking about Liverpool's history and sectarianism brought about by Irish immigration. The city has a history not unlike Glasgow's, yet the Pro4stant -Catholic thing has always has the lid kept on it. An uncle once said to me that L'pool was the Protestant team and Everton the catholic but I've heard of both sets of fans standing together at games. And we never seem to hear of references to the Hillsborough dead. I'd hate to think there's something more poisonous about Scotland but it certainly is beginning to look that way. I remember abuse when I walked past the catholic primary in Penilee as a kid but the Aberdeen thing is something that started with the Simpson tackle and got blown up; it's baffling that there seems to be more hate generated by this fixture than the Keltic matches.

[Rosco999 0]

It's widely accepted to hate Rangers and everything and anyone associated with us because they wanted us to be wiped out and because it didn't happen we are seen as "fair game".

 

Every team has its idiot element that embarrass their club as a whole.

 

But this seems to be majorities of clubs fans feel its ok to abuse us and our players i mean look at Lee Wallace being labelled a "grass" because he was attacked after a cup final on national TV.

 

Personally i don't care if no one likes us the feelings mutual in most cases but there is a line not to be crossed, which for me is attacking players or team buses or hanging effigies from stands but with us it's ok because its Rangers.

 

 

 

[BlackSocksRedTops 3,473]

I don't think for a moment you're being 'arsey' so don't worry about that. Religion hasn't been a big thing as such in Scotland or Britain as a whole for that matter in decades. Last I heard barely 6% of the population ever attend any type of Church services outside maybe a wedding so if you're talking about people having disagreements over any religious tenets that's not an issue. They're not religious.

 

The problem is in Scotland as in Northern Ireland it's evolved into a state more like tribalism where the 'adherents' for want of a better word despite not being the least bit religious still partake in a 'them and us' mentality possibly largely due to the British/Irish thing which though it once had a more religious element doesn't so much anymore but still exists at the same intensity in a different manner.

 

I remember my first job which was in a steel mill in Motherwell way back in the 1970's and working beside a young guy in there who would say things like if Scotland and Ireland went to war I would be fighting with Ireland. And that despite the fact he had been born in Scotland and had lived there all his life. That's got nothing to do with football and that mentality is still every bit as evident as it was then. Any football element is simply another avenue for them to express that mentality.

 

That's not going away anytime soon even if religion disappeared entirely. And incidentally where in Scotland are you from? I came from South Lanarkshire which has always been a hotbed of sectarian bile.

 

Fair comments JFK. I live in south Glasgow and I'm a Glaswegian born and bred. I'm not naïve to think that there is not sectarian bile out there but outwith the tribalism of football, I just don't see it in my everyday life.

[JFK-1 1,670]

I agree. It has morphed from a religious thing to a tribal thing which is associated with religion however is not fully dependant on it.

 

There seems to be some weird love in with Ireland which is very strange to me. I probably have more Irish roots than most of these plastic paddies (grandmother's side were from Southern Ireland, including a Catholic priest!) but I feel absolutely no affinity with any country other than the one of my birth.

 

It seems now that it is acceptable for open hatred of anything non-Irish / non-nationalist / pro-British / Protestant in Scotland with very little repercussion due to the government that we have let truly bed in.

 

I have an Irish Catholic Grandfather on my fathers side and feel absolutely no affinity whatsoever to Ireland and don't grasp why anybody who wasn't born there and most probably never even been there would. If that's where their affinity lies I have no idea why they're in Scotland and not there. It's not as if it's far away or something it's a short ferry ride away and if I felt that way about it that's where I would be.

[BlackSocksRedTops 3,473]

I agree. It has morphed from a religious thing to a tribal thing which is associated with religion however is not fully dependant on it.

 

There seems to be some weird love in with Ireland which is very strange to me. I probably have more Irish roots than most of these plastic paddies (grandmother's side were from Southern Ireland, including a Catholic priest!) but I feel absolutely no affinity with any country other than the one of my birth.

 

It seems now that it is acceptable for open hatred of anything non-Irish / non-nationalist / pro-British / Protestant in Scotland with very little repercussion due to the government that we have let truly bed in.

 

I'm not sure why you would find the "love in" with Ireland strange? A lot of Scots of Irish heritage are 1st/2nd/3rd generation immigrants who, like most Irish migrants around the world, still have an affinity with their families country. I would be the same myself about Scotland if I was an immigrant. I don't have a truck with this tbh.

[BlackSocksRedTops 3,473]

I have an Irish Catholic Grandfather on my fathers side and feel absolutely no affinity whatsoever to Ireland and don't grasp why anybody who wasn't born there and most probably never even been there would. If that's where their affinity lies I have no idea why they're in Scotland and not there. It's not as if it's far away or something it's a short ferry ride away and if I felt that way about it that's where I would be.

 

I don't mean to be arsey again but you don't understand why someone born here would want to have some kind of affinity with their parents Irish heritage? I would have thought that was quite a natural thing to do/feel? Maybe there are a lot Irish people want to stay in Scotland because of our own rich heritage, culture and geography and let's not forget substantially superior job prospects and educational opportunities. Ireland's a great country but let's not forget it's mainly rural. Opportunities and jobs for young people/adults are limited and that is why mass migration is still in evidence.

[JFK-1 1,670]

Fair comments JFK. I live in south Glasgow and I'm a Glaswegian born and bred. I'm not naïve to think that there is not sectarian bile out there but outwith the tribalism of football, I just don't see it in my everyday life.

 

Look at it from our side too through the lens of another place in South Lanarkshire namely Larkhall. Church attendance there is no higher than it is anywhere else in Scotland, these people aren't religious.

 

Yet I remember an incident from 20 years or so ago where a cable company had been erecting steel boxes containing the equipment which were and probably still are a standard utility green everywhere in the world they put them simply because this green paint was extremely hard wearing.

 

That didn't work out in Larkhall, the boxes were being constantly vandalised so Larkhall became the only place in the world the company painted the boxes grey.

[StuGers 477]

I'm not sure why you would find the "love in" with Ireland strange? A lot of Scots of Irish heritage are 1st/2nd/3rd generation immigrants who, like most Irish migrants around the world, still have an affinity with their families country. I would be the same myself about Scotland if I was an immigrant. I don't have a truck with this tbh.

 

So it is ok to hate your country of birth and others that are more "indigenous" because your distant relative was born somewhere else and chose to move to your current country for a better life? Why not put your energy into celebrating yourself rather than what your family used to be? When those focus too hard on history and perceived hardships, they are truly losing focus on their current situation and improving things in the time that they should be enjoying.