cooponthewing 1,139 Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 (edited) Just my tuppence worth on this debate. I think messi is a great footballer and at the moment the best in the world. However it's important to remember that every player now plays without fear of tackle (front, side or behind). Defending is no longer an art form. Taking all that into account you have to go back to the likes of Maradona, Pele (before my time though) Zidane, Cruyff and Guillit. Difficult to pick a top of all time (so many) but players of the past has much more to deal with. Therefore when they performed it was under more pressure and arguably their feet had to be quicker. Edited April 24, 2017 by cooponthewing 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete 2,499 Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 (edited) I'm not arguing pete - but it would take a hell of a lot of convincing to suggest that he "wasn't influencing play". It was his volley that came off the post to Casemiro to score - there is absolutely no way in the world that anyone could legitimately suggest he wasn't an active player influencing play. Okay Craig I just watched it again and it the number 4 is the one that hit the post. He is definitely not offside when the free kick is taken. There are 2 players offside the number 11 and a player on the far side that was definitely not influencing play. The scorer was also definitely onside, Having watched it again I am changing my view and it was definitely onside. The 2 players at the back post were No.4 and No.7 and both were onside at the time the kick was taken. The No. 11 was offside and he took no further part in the play. You can watch it here and pause it at the time the kick was taken about 40 seconds in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0T9WlLAjH4 Edited April 24, 2017 by pete 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davie P 4 Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 Just my tuppence worth on this debate. I think messi is a great footballer and at the moment the best in the world. However it's important to remember that every player now plays without fear of tackle (front, side or behind). Defending is no longer an art form. Not sure if anyone saw the Juventus/Barca match? Bonucci and Chiellini gave a masterclass in defending. I think Barca had one shot on target the entire match! That performance was without the need to resort to tackles from behind, they just managed the game so brilliantly. Obviously helps when you have Khedira and Pjanic sitting in front of the central defence, mind you. It just makes a mockery of Warburton attempting to convert Halliday into a defensive midfielder in front of an abysmal defence, without properly addressing the situation. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,195 Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 Okay Craig I just watched it again and it the number 4 is the one that hit the post. He is definitely not offside when the free kick is taken. There are 2 players offside the number 11 and a player on the far side that was definitely not influencing play. The scorer was also definitely onside, Having watched it again I am changing my view and it was definitely onside. The 2 players at the back post were No.4 and No.7 and both were onside at the time the kick was taken. The No. 11 was offside and he took no further part in the play.You can watch it here and pause it at the time the kick was taken about 40 seconds in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0T9WlLAjH4 I will need to watch it again pete - I watched it live and saw the freeze frame on the replay afterwards and Ramos definitely looked offside to me (#4). But will look again later. If he was onside that changes the debate a little too - in that the discussion was more around an offside player being active. IF Ramos was offside then you cant really doubt that he was active and influencing play. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete 2,499 Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 I will need to watch it again pete - I watched it live and saw the freeze frame on the replay afterwards and Ramos definitely looked offside to me (#4). But will look again later. If he was onside that changes the debate a little too - in that the discussion was more around an offside player being active. IF Ramos was offside then you cant really doubt that he was active and influencing play. No problem Craig I didn't think that when I saw it live it was Dutch TV commentator that said it and even then i had to look again to remember what exactly happened. There is one Barcelona player on the far side that is a yard behind the others and I think he is playing them onside. It is a close call and difficult to know exactly when the ball was kicked. If they are onside it is a terrific call from the linesman be it luck or good judgement. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,195 Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 No problem Craig I didn't think that when I saw it live it was Dutch TV commentator that said it and even then i had to look again to remember what exactly happened. There is one Barcelona player on the far side that is a yard behind the others and I think he is playing them onside. It is a close call and difficult to know exactly when the ball was kicked. If they are onside it is a terrific call from the linesman be it luck or good judgement. Aye, when I saw it on the freeze replay I noticed the Barca player far side and remember at the time thinking "might need to see that one again" - he was a bit obscured by the number of Madrid players playing right on the line. If indeed the linesman got it right then it was a terrific call. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveC 150 Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 Ah European football talk, how timely with the Europa Qualifiers a mere two months away 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooponthewing 1,139 Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 Ah European football talk, how timely with the Europa Qualifiers a mere two months away Oh nooooo! I picked the wrong day to stop the Valium..... 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forlanssister 3,050 Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 Interesting read re Portuguese coaches. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/26/sports/soccer/cybernetics-cesarean-sections-and-soccers-most-magnificent-mind.html 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Barristan Selmy 222 Posted April 28, 2017 Author Share Posted April 28, 2017 (edited) Hey i think ronaldo suarez and hazard are all now better and a few others are catching. Im sure he was great tonight. Hes stil a magnificent player. Why do you think that? Messi is the greatest player of all time and is as good as he ever was. Focusing on Ronaldo, what possible argument could you make for him being superior to Messi? There is no doubt whatsoever that Messi makes a far more significant contribution outside the box, and inside the box he's scored 18 more goals this season. Suarez - main striker and has 17 less than Messi. Hazard - fantastic player and the best player after Messi, but crucially...after Messi. Edited April 28, 2017 by Ser Barristan Selmy 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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