Billy Davies on Rangers...

[ranger_syntax 3,771]

I'd like to see Billy Davies try to drug, blind and kill a bull.

 

More convinced than ever that we have the right man in the dugout.

[SteveC 150]

Totally different killing a beast humanely and painlessly or humiliating it, killing it painfully and slowly. First they torture it, drug it and blind it to disorientate it. They both may not be 100% okay but to say they are the same thing is just total crap.

 

I don't think they are killed very humanely in the meat industry butother than that I agre. I posted something on this before and copy it below for ease of refernce. Slightly truncated version this time. it's slightly less horrific in Portugal, it should be noted (as I specified first time around). It's nothing "like Warburton playing cricket" far less identical.

 

"The bull is not an aggressive animal, and the reason he is angry and attempts to charge at the matador whilst in the bullring is mainly because he has been horrendously abused for the previous two days. In fact, what spectators see is not a normal, healthy bull, but a weakened, half-blinded and mentally destroyed version, whose chances of harming his tormentors is virtually nil. The bull has wet newspapers stuffed into his ears; vaseline is rubbed into his eyes to blur his vision; cotton is stuffed up his nostrils to cut off his respiration and a needle is stuck into his genitals. Also, a strong caustic solution is rubbed onto his legs which throws him off balance. This also keeps him from lying down on the ground. In addition to this, drugs are administered to pep him up or slow him down, and strong laxatives are added to his feed to further incapacitate him. He is kept in a dark box for a couple of days before he faces the ring: the purpose of this is to disorientate him. When he is let out of the box, he runs desperately towards the light at the end of the tunnel. He thinks that at last his suffering is over and he is being set free — instead, he runs into the bullring to face his killers and a jeering mob.

 

THE “FIGHT”

 

Strictly speaking, a bullfight is composed of 3 separate “acts”, and the whole thing is supposed to last for 20 minutes, though in actual fact it varies. The opening of a bullfight begins with a tune being played on a trumpet — the tune is the special, signa lure Rifle which characterises the beginning of the horror. Upon entering the ring, bulls have been known to collapse through exhaustion alter their pre-fight ordeal — they have been dragged to their feet by the bullfighter’s assistants.

 

The Picadors

 

The sequence of events begins when the bull faces the picadors — these are the men on horseback, whose purpose it is to exhaust the bull. They cut into his neck muscles with a pica. This is a weapon of about 6-8 inches long, and 2 inches thick. Once it is thrust into the bull it is twisted round and a large, gaping wound appears. The bull then starts bleeding to death.

 

The Assistant Matadors

 

After the picador has finished his sordid business, the assistant matadors then get to work with the banderillas (sharp, harpoon-like barbed instruments). These are plunged into the bull’s body, and he may also be taunted by capes. Up to six banderillas may be used. When the banderillas strike the bull stops in his tracks and bellows madly.

 

The Kill

 

A trumpet signals the final “act” — in fact, during the whole nightmare, strange, slow tunes are played throughout. It is, of course, during the final act that the bull is killed (and hopefully goes onto a better life). The kill should last 6 minutes, and is done by the main matador. If he has any difficulties (which is an extremely rare occurrence), the others immediately rush in to his aid and finish off the bull.

 

THE FINAL DEGRADATION

 

The matador is supposed to sever the artery near the heart with one thrust of the sword — in fact, this never happens. It often takes 2-3 times before the creature is mercifully released by death. By this time, the bull’s lungs and heart will be punctured and he always vomits blood. Miraculously, he sometimes attempts to rise again, and gets up on his knees, only to receive further mutilation at the hands of his tormentors. He finally gives up, goes to his knees and lies down. Even then, he is not allowed a little dignity to leave this world in peace, his ears and tail are cut off (often when he is fully conscious), and his broken, bleeding body is dragged around the ring by mules, to which he is attached by an apparatus made of wood and chains. Not content with his suffering, which must be too horrible to describe by words, the crowds boo and jeer him. They even throw empty beer cans at him. His body is then taken away to be skinned, and even then he may not be dead when this happens.

 

HORSES

 

The bull is not the only animal to suffer in the ring — hundreds of horses die long and agonising deaths as they are gored by the pain-crazed bull. Horses have their ears stuffed with wet newspaper, they are blindfolded and their vocal chords are cut so they are unable to scream in pain. It is not an uncommon occurrence for horses to stumble upon their own entrails after being badly gored. After a horse has been wounded it is led out of the ring, given crude surgery, and sent back in. Horses used in bullrings sweat and tremble from fear — they are forced to return to the ring time and time again. The picador’s horses are generally animals whose working life is over, and which are, therefore, old, infirm and docile. Their reward for serving mankind faithfully is to end their days in the bullrings. They are kept in poor conditions between fights, arid, not surprisingly, their life expectancy is short."

Edited September 10, 2017 by SteveC

[the gunslinger 3,366]

Totally different killing a beast humanely and painlessly or humiliating it, killing it painfully and slowly. First they torture it, drug it and blind it to disorientate it. They both may not be 100% okay but to say they are the same thing is just total crap.

I just wont moralise about it while munching steak. Nor would i take anyone doing so seriously.

 

I just feel hypocritical. I know its not the same.

 

 

[cooponthewing 1,139]

Horse racing is cruel and humiliating too. I don't see anyone protesting outside the bookies, whip in hand? I personally wouldn't fancy going up against a bull. It's not my cup of tea. However it's not in our culture.

 

Hunting is a pastime enjoyed by many here in this country https://www.gov.uk/hunting/mammals

 

I had a wee look at the rules. Not sure I would be over the moon if I were the fox or other mammals? I don't see the Portuguese being narcissistic enough to patronise or criticise our society?

 

Pedro is turning it around on the pitch at the moment. What he does or done in the bullring is his affair. As long as he is getting results I'm happy.

[les186 271]

I didn't realise bull fighting was so abhorrent. I think I can eat meat and criticise bull fighting and other blood sports. Hopefully Pedro no longer approves of bull fighting.

[SteveC 150]

Horse racing is cruel and humiliating too. I don't see anyone protesting outside the bookies, whip in hand? I personally wouldn't fancy going up against a bull. It's not my cup of tea. However it's not in our culture.

 

Hunting is a pastime enjoyed by many here in this country https://www.gov.uk/hunting/mammals

 

I had a wee look at the rules. Not sure I would be over the moon if I were the fox or other mammals? I don't see the Portuguese being narcissistic enough to patronise or criticise our society?

 

Pedro is turning it around on the pitch at the moment. What he does or done in the bullring is his affair. As long as he is getting results I'm happy.

 

 

 

I should say that I like Pedro and think he has been treated appallingly in Scotland. Not as appallingly as bulls are treated, though. And, yes, cooponthewing, myself and others do protest and have for as long as I can remember about the bloodsports you list here. Even getting one banned despite the top echelons of our society fighting for it and to reinstate it some to that.

 

Why would one only pick on an Iberian bloodsport? I'm against them all. It just so happened to be the one under discussion and one in which many people are unaware of what goes on. I cut this off the post (I included it first time around) but perhaps I should not have:

 

"But it’s part of their culture’ is the argument commonly used to defend bullfighting, but this argument is also used to defend female circumcision (genital mutilation). It could also have been used to defend witch-burning, bear-baiting and a multitude of other evils, “Culture” is not a magic word, and simply labeling something as such doesn’t make it right and above criticism. Also, the word “culture” suggests the enhancement and enrichment of people or a society, and watching animals being tortured to death doesn’t fall into this description.

 

“Get your own house in order” is another argument put forward, with reference to our own bloodsports such as hunting and harecoursing. Well, there is no reason why we can’t support the Spanish Animal Rights movement as well as fighting animal abuse in our own country. An animal doesn’t regard itself as being Spanish when it is being tortured to death — rather it is a member of the anima[ kingdom being tortured to death by humans. The Animal Rights movement is a worldwide one and should not be restricted by boundaries.

 

As has been mentioned previously, bullrings are largely sustained by tourists who visit out of curiosity and a misguided belief that if they fail to visit this unique part of Spanish culture, their visit to Spain will not be complete."

Edited September 10, 2017 by SteveC

[Crimson Dynamo 128]

he sounds like a bitter man, i'm glad he never came to us as manager

Edited September 10, 2017 by Crimson Dynamo

[the gunslinger 3,366]

I didn't realise bull fighting was so abhorrent. I think I can eat meat and criticise bull fighting and other blood sports. Hopefully Pedro no longer approves of bull fighting.

You can. I just cant take you seriously.

 

 

[Uilleam 5,429]

I should say that I like Pedro and think he has been treated appallingly in Scotland. not as appallingly as bulls are treated though. And, yes, cooponthewing, myself and others do protest and have for as long as I can remember about the bloodsports you list here. Even getting one banned despite the top echelons of our society fighting for it and to reinstate it some to that.

Why would one only pick on an Iberian bloodsport? I'm against them all. It just so happened to be the one under discussion and one in which many people are unaware of what goes on. cut this off the post (I included it first time around) but perhaps i should not have:

 

"But it’s part of their culture’ is the argument commonly used to defend bullfighting, but this argument is also used to defend female circumcision (genital mutilation). It could also have been used to defend witch-burning, bear-baiting and a multitude of other evils, “Culture” is not a magic word, and simply labeling something as such doesn’t make it right and above criticism. Also, the word “culture” suggests the enhancement and enrichment of people or a society, and watching animals being tortured to death doesn’t fall into this description.

 

“Get your own house in order” is another argument put forward, with reference to our own bloodsports such as hunting and harecoursing. Well, there is no reason why we can’t support the Spanish Animal Rights movement as well as fighting animal abuse in our own country. An animal doesn’t regard itself as being Spanish when it is being tortured to death — rather it is a member of the anima[ kingdom being tortured to death by humans. The Animal Rights movement is a worldwide one and should not be restricted by boundaries.

 

As has been mentioned previously, bullrings are largely sustained by tourists who visit out of curiosity and a misguided belief that if they fail to visit this unique part of Spanish culture, their visit to Spain will not be complete."

 

I have never been convinced by 'cultural relativism'. The fact remains that bullfighting IS part of Iberian culture, which we need not, do not, condone. Swingers Clubs, dogging, group sex, etc are NOT part of UK culture, although they may be popular among sectors of the populace, even some on here, reading between the lines.

[MacK1950 2,231]

It was his "employment" at that time and no matter what a breadwinner has to do what is necessary to provide for them-self/family,and Pedro seems to have moved on many years ago,the bullfighting being perpetuated by the media.

More worrying to me,if you have seen it in the news,is the persecution of Scottish wildlife,by poisoning,shooting etc.by "Landowners" in the pursuit of profit.I am lucky to have seen an eagle fly.