Walter's league record

[CammyF 6,891]

The one big mistake of PLG�´s was to spend 1.8M on Sebo.

 

Your having a laugh aren't you? What about players like Papac, Svensson, Sionko et al who look utter dross.

 

Ask yourself why we were getting the bad results ?

Couldn�´t have had anything to do with dressing room divide could it, BF and his little group of so-called professionals were throwing their toys out of the pram.

 

So if that is true, why did PLG continue to play those players? Why did it take PLG 6 months to realise that BF wasn't playing as PLG instructed?

 

Maybe the poor results were down to poor players, poor tactics, poor instructions for a man who couldn't speak basic English?

 

Was it BF and his 'cliques' fault for players having the inability to score for 2 yards out with a gaping goal?

 

What signs were there that PLG was going to turn this around? What one positive can we as fans take from PLG's tenure at Ibrox? I am scratching my head here thinking of any signs that Rangers were improving under PLG.

 

If he�´d been allowed more money and had bought Elmander things could have been different but no.

So its BF fault that PLG didn't get more money to spend? That arguement could be made as a defence for AM, who didn't have a shit load to spend on players either but managed to match the 2nd most successful Craptic manager in the trophy count and managed to take us to the last 16 of the CL.

 

Still haven't answered why PLG was sacked and why SDM chose (if the rumours are true) to back an underling over a manager? Also interesting to hear the reasons you believe that the first thing WS did was reinstate BF as club captain??????

 

Now, surely if you were a new manager coming into a club in turmoil and you knew that the turmoil was partly due to the club captain and a 'clique', you would sack the captain? However, WS decided the opposite, maybe that gives a clearer picture of the situation than any of the other rumours?

 

Cammy F

[Guest Jaffa_the_biscuit]

Your having a laugh aren't you? What about players like Papac, Svensson, Sionko et al who look utter dross.

 

 

 

So if that is true, why did PLG continue to play those players? Why did it take PLG 6 months to realise that BF wasn't playing as PLG instructed?

 

Maybe the poor results were down to poor players, poor tactics, poor instructions for a man who couldn't speak basic English?

 

Was it BF and his 'cliques' fault for players having the inability to score for 2 yards out with a gaping goal?

 

What signs were there that PLG was going to turn this around? What one positive can we as fans take from PLG's tenure at Ibrox? I am scratching my head here thinking of any signs that Rangers were improving under PLG.

 

 

So its BF fault that PLG didn't get more money to spend? That arguement could be made as a defence for AM, who didn't have a shit load to spend on players either but managed to match the 2nd most successful Craptic manager in the trophy count and managed to take us to the last 16 of the CL.

 

Still haven't answered why PLG was sacked and why SDM chose (if the rumours are true) to back an underling over a manager? Also interesting to hear the reasons you believe that the first thing WS did was reinstate BF as club captain??????

 

Now, surely if you were a new manager coming into a club in turmoil and you knew that the turmoil was partly due to the club captain and a 'clique', you would sack the captain? However, WS decided the opposite, maybe that gives a clearer picture of the situation than any of the other rumours?

 

Cammy F

 

I will answer your points individually per paragraph as best I can Cammy..

 

Those players mentioned were dross at times I agree, many of them were not always featured in humiliating defeats though, that's worth remembering. Another thing worth taking into account is that many of the players involved in a terrible Rangers team that finished 20 points behind celtic the year before were for the most part though) Every last manager at Rangers has signed some duds that didn't work out (some more than others) that's just football.

 

I would still argue that many of Le Guens signings have not been given a decent run out in a decent team. More thrown into the gauntlet and expected to perform from the word go...How many Rangers teams over the years has Barry Ferguson been involved in? All of them have failed just about (minus winning 2 leagues by the skin of our teeth, one on goal difference, one by a point) not a personal dig on Barry here, just another angle on it. I appreciate his work rate and think he's still a good player for us (even though his attitude and ego at times could be a whole lot better, especially considering he's our captain).

 

 

Again, Would you say all this about last year too? McLeish was the one hung out to dry for players being bollocks, shocking defending, no creativity, tactically terrible, signing dummies, unable to score from yards out? Players and a team need time to mould, you cannot just come into a new country, a new league, a new style of football and turn absolute mince into winners over a few months. Expecting that to happen would be more than Naive, now Le Guen didn't exactly spend much money either did he? nor did he get the players he really wanted to begin with (not his fault).

 

It actually makes me cringe that people see past the players who have been at the club for a number of years and have failed in their duties? These new players are only just here (first season FFS) but it's all their fault? They are the reason why we hhave been so poor for this length of time is it?

 

What signs were there that Le Guen would have achieved something? Well our form in Europe (beating an Italian side on Italian Soil for the first time in our history and doing so convincingly) was a great sign of our European step up.....even though the team were pish remember (so what could we have achieved with a decent Rangers side)? Le Guens tactics were perfect on the night you will have found, a result we were never used to.

 

How can you sit there and say what positives was he "going" to bring, when we both know he left before he was really able to start performing as a manager? He was here for 7 months, 7 months to change attitudes, fitness levels, replace deadwood, sign (by estimation) players he though would work in our league (cheap ones at that) People need time to learn from their mistakes and to adapt to something new.

 

Some of Le Guens signings have not worked out in the short term I agree, but again I would question the "DUD" label some of them are being given already. When you consider their circumstances, some of them have not been given a fair chance. Sionko, Czech Republic world cup winger, Svensson, tipped off as the new swedish captain in the making - Those players cannot be duds....just not yet suited to the scottish game, but they need time to learn and adapt.

 

Le Guen was not sacked - He walked.....if you think otherwise then fair play to you. Murray could see that Le Guen wasn't happy, so he gave him a choice, Le guen probably thought everyone was against him (no thanks to a small section of boo bears at fir park) and decided to leave.

 

Walter Smith never had any gripe with barry ferguson, because Barry ferguson never disrespected him, neither does he go against what Walter asks him to do. Walter's training plans and attitude is way different from Le Guens, totally different - There wouldn't be a reason for Walter to sack barry ferguson - Le Guen had left so there wasn't any real need to replace Barry (it was always going to be, one or the other).

 

Now if Rangers were performing brilliantly and Le Guen seemed to take us back a step upon his appointment as our manager, then I could understand the reason for not believing in the guy and rubbishing him as our manager, but no - We were utter pish when he arrived (as any stats will show)...we have improved now under Walter at the back and are finding the net more, but not consistantly enough (ICT at Ibrox) humped out of europe, and our general play can be very boring at times.

 

I honestly think that in time we would have turned it around and FOR ONCE we would be bringing through first class young and raw talent, but now I don't think that will happen. I will be 100% behind Walter & Ally, as well as Barry and the team, but my optimism is not high and my confidence is low.

 

Rangers have became a joke, we need to turn this shit around....and fast.

[CammyF 6,891]

Jaffa, we all know that no manager or player gets time to settle at Ibrox. Can be argued that some of DA and AM's duds might have come good if give time and a decent run, but Rangers being Rangers and Rangers fans being Rangers fans, that isn't always possible. You know that and I know that.

 

As for Europe, AM's feat the previous year was far better than PLG's. Getting qualification from a group that contained Porto and Inter Milan, than narrowly losing to the eventual CL semi-finalists IMO is better than the 3-2 in Italy.

 

As for players he signed, why did PLG initially sign players who weren't suited to the Scottish game? PLG had videos (or DVDS) of all our games from the previous season so had no excuses for signing players unsuited to Scottish Football. I have seen nothing from Sebo, Sionko and Svensson to suggest that they would ever be suited to Scottish football.

 

DA signed players initially who were suited to our game, I'm thinking of players like Rod Wallace, Gio and Numan - admittedly he had others who weren't - Amato and Konterman.

 

As for PLG not getting the players he wanted, that isn't his fault, but it also isn't BF or the supposed 'cliques' fault. We all know who's fault that is, SDM and Sun-Tan Kid.

 

Rangers are rotten from the top down at the moment, I certainly wouldn't deny that, I have been saying this for over 5 years now. The whole PLG saga is systomatic of Rangers at the moment, and if there were 'factions', it wouldn't have mattered who had 'won'.

 

I would go as far as to say that PLG was the right manger at the wrong time, but still can't see where the 'faith' in him turning us around comes from. For every victory in Italy there was a 'St Johnstone' domestically.

 

Rangers will never improve until SDM is removed from his post.

 

Cammy F

 

PS - Welcome to the forums

[Guest Jaffa_the_biscuit]

Jaffa, we all know that no manager or player gets time to settle at Ibrox. Can be argued that some of DA and AM's duds might have come good if give time and a decent run, but Rangers being Rangers and Rangers fans being Rangers fans, that isn't always possible. You know that and I know that.

 

As for Europe, AM's feat the previous year was far better than PLG's. Getting qualification from a group that contained Porto and Inter Milan, than narrowly losing to the eventual CL semi-finalists IMO is better than the 3-2 in Italy.

 

As for players he signed, why did PLG initially sign players who weren't suited to the Scottish game? PLG had videos (or DVDS) of all our games from the previous season so had no excuses for signing players unsuited to Scottish Football. I have seen nothing from Sebo, Sionko and Svensson to suggest that they would ever be suited to Scottish football.

 

DA signed players initially who were suited to our game, I'm thinking of players like Rod Wallace, Gio and Numan - admittedly he had others who weren't - Amato and Konterman.

 

As for PLG not getting the players he wanted, that isn't his fault, but it also isn't BF or the supposed 'cliques' fault. We all know who's fault that is, SDM and Sun-Tan Kid.

 

Rangers are rotten from the top down at the moment, I certainly wouldn't deny that, I have been saying this for over 5 years now. The whole PLG saga is systomatic of Rangers at the moment, and if there were 'factions', it wouldn't have mattered who had 'won'.

 

I would go as far as to say that PLG was the right manger at the wrong time, but still can't see where the 'faith' in him turning us around comes from. For every victory in Italy there was a 'St Johnstone' domestically.

 

Rangers will never improve until SDM is removed from his post.

 

Cammy F

 

PS - Welcome to the forums

 

 

Thanks for the welcome.

 

Your opinions on this matter are respected and appreciated Cammy, on follow follow many choose to be stubborn and have a view of "It just is because I say so" without any detail, facts or back up, which makes the debate pointless.

 

I still believe that with a cash injection in the summer, with Le Guen getting real quality (the sort he was after to begin with) and with a lesson learned about our league and whats expected, that we would have started to turn around a team that have been in decline for about 7 years. The decaying rot would have slowly but surely been removed and replaced with a team of professional atheletes, we would have offered more in europe, granted Eck managed the almost impossible in getting us to the last 16 with THAT Rangers team, but arguably you could say we carried a hell a lot of luck in that campaign.

 

Managing to beat porto 3-2 at Ibrox when they totally out played us (last gasp winner from soti).

 

Managing to get a goal in the porto away game, we only had about 2 chances.

 

Bratislava not getting a goal against Porto, they were all over them and weather conditions is what probably stopped them getting a goal. A few other results went in our favour in other games.

 

The Inter Game at Ibrox, we were quite fortunate to have only lost one goal.

 

However, all that said....sometimes you make your luck in football, and we have certainly been shafted in Europe on the luck side for many a year in the past, so it was probably justice for previous years really.

 

 

Quick Question, on the lounge side of the messageboard....is it just like FF, where you need 250 posts to get into that room?.

 

Cheers

 

 

Biccie.

[Gribz 743]

Thanks for the welcome.

 

Your opinions on this matter are respected and appreciated Cammy, on follow follow many choose to be stubborn and have a view of "It just is because I say so" without any detail, facts or back up, which makes the debate pointless.

 

I still believe that with a cash injection in the summer, with Le Guen getting real quality (the sort he was after to begin with) and with a lesson learned about our league and whats expected, that we would have started to turn around a team that have been in decline for about 7 years. The decaying rot would have slowly but surely been removed and replaced with a team of professional atheletes, we would have offered more in europe, granted Eck managed the almost impossible in getting us to the last 16 with THAT Rangers team, but arguably you could say we carried a hell a lot of luck in that campaign.

 

Managing to beat porto 3-2 at Ibrox when they totally out played us (last gasp winner from soti).

 

Managing to get a goal in the porto away game, we only had about 2 chances.

 

Bratislava not getting a goal against Porto, they were all over them and weather conditions is what probably stopped them getting a goal. A few other results went in our favour in other games.

 

The Inter Game at Ibrox, we were quite fortunate to have only lost one goal.

 

However, all that said....sometimes you make your luck in football, and we have certainly been shafted in Europe on the luck side for many a year in the past, so it was probably justice for previous years really.

 

 

Quick Question, on the lounge side of the messageboard....is it just like FF, where you need 250 posts to get into that room?.

 

Cheers

 

 

Biccie.

 

Yeah welcome to the boards, a good first few posts from you.

 

BTW no you can post in the lounge straight away!

 

Im with you on Ferguson and other points. But Im sitting on the fence with Le Guen. While he was in charge I kept saying we needed to be patient and it wouldnt be until February until we STARTED to see a change in his team - he never even got to Feb so we will never know.

 

I was backing him and backing him but towards the end a few of his results were just getting ridiculous and I started to doubt if he could turn it round. However looking back now I probably think I was being rash and was angry with the poor results.

 

I think Murray should have backed him in the Ferguson situation but the boo boys came out and won - just a shame. I do think Le Guen would have advanced the club in many areas but it wasnt to be.

[CammyF 6,891]

Thanks for the welcome.

 

Your opinions on this matter are respected and appreciated Cammy, on follow follow many choose to be stubborn and have a view of "It just is because I say so" without any detail, facts or back up, which makes the debate pointless.

 

I still believe that with a cash injection in the summer, with Le Guen getting real quality (the sort he was after to begin with) and with a lesson learned about our league and whats expected, that we would have started to turn around a team that have been in decline for about 7 years. The decaying rot would have slowly but surely been removed and replaced with a team of professional atheletes, we would have offered more in europe, granted Eck managed the almost impossible in getting us to the last 16 with THAT Rangers team, but arguably you could say we carried a hell a lot of luck in that campaign.

 

Managing to beat porto 3-2 at Ibrox when they totally out played us (last gasp winner from soti).

 

Managing to get a goal in the porto away game, we only had about 2 chances.

 

Bratislava not getting a goal against Porto, they were all over them and weather conditions is what probably stopped them getting a goal. A few other results went in our favour in other games.

 

The Inter Game at Ibrox, we were quite fortunate to have only lost one goal.

 

However, all that said....sometimes you make your luck in football, and we have certainly been shafted in Europe on the luck side for many a year in the past, so it was probably justice for previous years really.

 

 

Quick Question, on the lounge side of the messageboard....is it just like FF, where you need 250 posts to get into that room?.

 

Cheers

 

 

Biccie.

 

Off course AM carried a lot of luck, but if you cast your mind back to our best (recent) European campaign in 92/93, that team also carried a lot of luck (CSKA 'away', Nissy goal v Brugge at Ibrox etc). To get to the later stages of any campaign, you need luck.

 

Conversly, last season we were unlucky not to beat Brateslava home and away (especially at Ibrox when we missed a hatful of chances) and as I said previously, can count oureslves very unlucky to have been knocked out by Villarreal.

 

Would PLG have improved us with an improved transfer budget, most likely, but IMO so would have AM. Both, and any future managers would also be helped if we had a decent Youth Set Up in place and delivering over the last 5 years. IMO, this is SDM biggest act of folly. Rangers missed an opportunity to have the best youth academy/facility when 'Murray Park' was built. If SDM had ploughed money into the Youth Development instead of funding the signings of TAF (as an example) we would be reaping the benifits now.

 

By getting the basics right, you become hard to beat (witness our fortunes under WS and Ally). IMO that is where PLG got it horribely wrong. A blind man could have seen where we were weak last season and all good teams are built from the back and have a solid spine. PLG refused to do this, or didn't see where we were weak.

 

All water under the bridge and a sorry affair in the history of Rangers Football club but indicative of SDM's reign.

 

Cammy F

[Guest Jaffa_the_biscuit]

Yeah welcome to the boards, a good first few posts from you.

 

BTW no you can post in the lounge straight away!

 

Im with you on Ferguson and other points. But Im sitting on the fence with Le Guen. While he was in charge I kept saying we needed to be patient and it wouldnt be until February until we STARTED to see a change in his team - he never even got to Feb so we will never know.

 

I was backing him and backing him but towards the end a few of his results were just getting ridiculous and I started to doubt if he could turn it round. However looking back now I probably think I was being rash and was angry with the poor results.

 

I think Murray should have backed him in the Ferguson situation but the boo boys came out and won - just a shame. I do think Le Guen would have advanced the club in many areas but it wasnt to be.

 

 

Thanks for the welcome Gribz, It's true that le Guen took a hell of a long time to try and get any real form of shape & consistency (and in the end never really got it). The first game of the season (although we only won 2-1) I thought we looked brilliant, Sionko especially. We played some nice football but the goals just were not coming (again you can't blame Le Guen for that). I expected better from him in his time here that's for sure, but I was also patient like yourself, I noticed many a bear at Ibrox get over optimistic suggesting we would wrap the league up for Christmas and the likes? I am sure if asked Le Guen would have agreed that he and our team underperformed when you consider our size and stature in a minnow league like the SPL, his signings much included in the criticism.

 

It will go down as a "what could have been" for me.

 

 

 

 

 

I get this message when I try and post a message in the lounge side.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers for any help with this.

 

Biscuit.

[ascender 352]

The PLG situation is a strange one. On one hand because of the pressure of the job and the fact that finishing second is seen as failure, the odds were stacked against him and who knows what his long term game plan for the club was.

 

On the other hand, he's going to be judged by his signings and the way things are going, all of them could be gone by the start of next season. WS obviously hasn't seen much in guys like Sebo, Svensson or Sionko as they've all been kept on the bench at best. Sebo's had a bit more involvement, but I'd have thought he'll be gone too.

 

Also, I'd have hoped that a top class coach would have sorted out our defensive problems, but PLG didn't seem to think there was anything wrong. WS seemed to make that his top priority, but when PLG could have done the same by signing Pressley, he wasn't interested. In the end its worked out better IMO as I think Weir is a better player than Pressley.

 

We all know that when you come here you are straight in to the spotlight and you just don't get time to settle. But usually with players who have tough starts here, you see something, a flash of potential or they do something special that makes you think they'll come good in the end. Unfortunately with many of PLG's signings that's just not happened and we've ended up giving them the benefit of the doubt time after time. Its worrying that a top class manager who is rated highly, can sign that many players who just aren't suited to the SPL. A couple of them have also said that they underestimated the Scottish game which is very worrying for professional athletes to admit to.

 

Our squad is probably at the weakest its been in my living memory to be honest. We're in dire straits and really need to rebuild this squad both in terms of quality and quantity as a matter of urgency. Unfortunately I don't think WS will get the money required to do it and that next season will be another really long one for us. Unless there's a significant amount of money available to WS, the rebuilding will take another year or so at least. There's just no way we can afford to sign the number of good players needed to even bolster our squad at the moment. When you add in the players who will leave in the summer, we're in an even bigger mess.

 

As for the BF thing, I think the thing is that no-one is blaming him for the mess we're in, but because of his profile as our best player, captain and one of our more experienced players, he's first in the firing line. I still think the way that PLG left was an absolute embarrassment and something we should be ashamed of. There's no doubt that he walked away after DM opened the door for him, but the players role in it left a bad taste in my mouth.

 

When PLG came and started to emphasise the importance of fitness, diet and overall lifestyle, there were grumblings almost immediately which came out through the usual sources from the players. This unhappiness seemed to remain throughout his tenure and we even had the foreign players admitting that the Scottish lads didn't really socialise with them or make them feel part of the group. Then we hear that there's still a drinking culture amongst the Scottish players and the foreign guys can't believe how they live.

 

I really had high hopes for PLG when he started, if only because I thought he'd get the players in to great physical shape. Which is really important in the SPL as its a long, hard season, especially over the winter months and when you're playing lots of games against opposition teams who are set up to defend. But what hope did he have if there was a number of the players who just didn't seem to want to change?

 

WS admits that times have changed since the team drinking days of 9IAR, but I really hope that he can get some sort of team spirit back in to our side, both on and off the pitch. That's what we've really missed over the last few years I think. We need a captain with fire in his belly who drives the team on and unites them, leads by example. I just get the impression that the squad is still very disjointed and when we're losing or finding it tough going, there's no-one really motivating the team on the park. Its the same sort of lacklustre atmosphere that we've become used to on occasion under AM and which has hung around now for 3 years or so. I just don't know what the answer is though.

[Super_Ally 0]

The following was taken from FF (Author, Jaffa the biscuit)

 

Le Guen inherited the worst Rangers side in 20 years, even 10 million probably wouldn't have been enough to turn around the pile of shit we had. He got rid of many duds but sadly the first few players that arrived couldn't provide the level of performance (along with the other duds around them) domestically.

 

Le Guens opening season would have been a bad one, but lessons are learned and mistakes are made. Getting the right players, tactics, attitude, fitness levels all takes time, you cannot turn a shower of shite into "true winners" over a 7 month period, especially not with our team as bad as they were.

 

 

In time that guy could have and would have turned this club around in terms of the kind of players we bring through, the attitude our team has, the quality on show.......the whole package, something new to the table.

 

But no, he was let down by those who were supposed to show him the same respect and appreciation, (the same players that got McLeish the sack) a small section of fans wanted to follow one player (who has been a part of our shit team for a few years) over a manager who had a lot to offer. New ideas, a continental style and attitude, a complete professional...and the sort of manager who could lure young and raw talent to our side (not sign old has beens).

 

It's probably the biggest mistake we have ever made........I honestly believe that.

 

Le Guen has the capabilities, in time we would have turned it around and became a first class outfit...instead we hope to try now and be a bit better domestically and put up a better fight against celtic - That's some vision that.

 

Walter, Ally, Barry Ferguson - they will all get my full support, It's Rangers first - everything else comes later, they are what we have currently and will get my full backing, but if I could have it any other way, I would have Le Guen back here and I would allow him the chance to have a fair crack of the whip.

 

You do not get rid of a manager after 7 months, especially not at Rangers FC.

 

 

Cammy

And I�´ll add the "pro- PLG campaign from the herald must have passed me by because I didn�´t notice it.

Ask yourself why we were getting the bad results ?

Couldn�´t have had anything to do with dressing room divide could it, BF and his little group of so-called professionals were throwing their toys out of the pram.

 

The one big mistake of PLG�´s was to spend 1.8M on Sebo.

If he�´d been allowed more money and had bought Elmander things could have been different but no.

 

Absolute snooze-fest mate. Heard it all before. Was crap then is crap now.

 

Why this blind belief in PLGs is the messiah? Just because people regulalry preach it without backing it up does not make it so.

 

Also noone has ever answered which top manager takes a team several steps back before taking them forward? None. Just how bad would we have to be before he made us good again.

 

PLG was bad for Rangers. End of.

 

He did nothing to show that all his foreign genius and diet plans would've turned us from where he was taking us to some kind of European super-team like the blind faithful keep harping on about.

 

Frankly its embarassing to keep hearing this guff.

[buster 0]

Absolute snooze-fest mate. Heard it all before. Was crap then is crap now.

 

Why this blind belief in PLGs is the messiah? Just because people regulalry preach it without backing it up does not make it so.

 

Also noone has ever answered which top manager takes a team several steps back before taking them forward? None. Just how bad would we have to be before he made us good again.

 

PLG was bad for Rangers. End of.

 

He did nothing to show that all his foreign genius and diet plans would've turned us from where he was taking us to some kind of European super-team like the blind faithful keep harping on about.

 

Frankly its embarassing to keep hearing this guff.

If you say so mate

 

There are many who don�´t share your views either.

 

But hey, lets stay with the tried and tested Scottish method, that in my 34 years being a football supporter has yielded one ECWC fo Aberdeen.

 

But as long as we win the spl

The spl won�´t be far off the Irish league in terms of level within a few years.