Rangers 1 Kilmarnock 1 Post Match Discussion.

[StuGers 477]

Did the ref miss our penalty then? If that goes in it's 2-0 and game over. This hysteria over referees is blinding too many people from the very real problems we currently have.

 

Of course he didn’t. But he didn’t help due to the farcical display. Can we not highlight the chronic refereeing against us? Yes, we have other problems but It doesn’t mean we should all lie down and accept what is happening with us and referees this season.

[Darthter 542]

Poor overall result....

 

Firstly the ref....for the most part, I though he had a decent game - that all crumbled in the dying minutes though. I can understand him taking his time over the penalty decision - he want's to make the right call , however it then descended into farce.

 

the penalty was a clear stonewall penalty, however, it wasn't a clear goal scoring opportunity so no reason for B/Foot to see red. It also wasn't a bad/dirty challenge, so even a yellow could have been deemed harsh. It was a straight forward foul inside the box, nothing malicious & nothing to argue.

 

The Jack B/foot incident - total stupidity on Jack's part. He was clearly being goaded by B/Foot, and let himself get suckered in instead of walking away. It's difficult to tell from the video footage whether Jack makes an actual advance with his head, or whether it is just natural movement, but it wasn't that that made B/foot fall....it was a clear push by Jack. B/foot then goes down (anyone get a view of the sniper???), clutching his face in apparent agony, remaining motionless for a short period. I believe it is clear from the video that there is NO head contact, and therefore B/foot should receive retrospective action from the CO for simulation. The Ref has deemed Jacks actions as a yellow card (correct decision). Candeias lines up his penalty for a 2nd time, only to be stopped again following the ref's change of heart & a red is shown to Jack. What additional information did the ref receive & from whom??? Not sure if there was comms with the linesman prior to the Yellow card....if there was it would then probably be down to the 4th official. That being the case, why did the 4th official not make his thoughts clear before the yellow was shown??? or has he viewed a TV replay??? Lets be honest, everyone's attention was on Candeias & the penalty. I think, based on the video, Jack will get the red card rescinded or downgraded back to a yellow, and B/foot should receive a ban - I doubt that will happen though.

 

Pedro demanded a response form the players...did he receive it - NO. I think from the wee post-match interview, it's clear that he believes the same - you can hear it in his voice,he sounds so deflated.

We played pretty decently in the 1st half, but I think the biggest change was when Nemane came on - we seemed to lose a lot of momentum at that point....everything suddenly became flat & laboured. Is this an indication of what Windass brings to the team, or is it simply the fact that we can't play properly past 60mins??? From that point on Candeias disappeared as well.

 

As others have said, 1-0 up with a couple of mins to play & receive a penalty. We should have been home & dry with a 2-0 win. Should Candeias have taken the penalty...with hindsight, no but at the time I would have no reason for him not to take it.

So where does that leave Pedro??? The fans are clearly not happy with what they are seeing on a regular basis. I think many fan appreciate that there is a good team in there somewhere - the players have the ability - but for whatever reason, they are not showing it. PC said at the start of the week, there is effectively only so much that he can do. The players are performing very will in training etc but come game time it all goes "oot the windae". Why are we playing decent/well for fairly long periods of the match, then suddenly collapsing??? PC is a stats/analysis man....I would suggest that he looks are recent stats & tries to identify any patterns ie. 60min collapse. Are certain things happening when specific players start or subbed??? I believe we are not far from having a good team - we have the six pack, but lack the wee plastic bit to hold the cans together. PC & the backroom staff MUST find that plastic bit ASAP....if not he will be oot the door.

[trublusince1982 243]

But focusing on the final minutes is too wilfully ignore the previous 90. We weren't good enough to beat the bottom side in our league, at home. That's the stark, cold truth and focusing on the referee distracts from the enormous deficiencies in our squad and club. That's not aimed at you by the way.

 

Good enough to win if the ref does his job correctly.

 

Too many blinded by the fact we are not Rangers of old and never will be again. We are good enough to beat the team facing us but we are not good enough to beat the team and the referee facing us.

 

No manager is going to change that. None.

 

If not for referees we are in second spot 4 points better of at a bare minimum. The football bar a couple of minor tweaks is as good as we are going to get.

 

People need to wake up and stop blaming players and managers and boards for not being able to surmount the task before us. Its never going to happen.

 

You can't play your way out of this, it's impossible. They will just come down harder on us or give more ludicrous decisions (if possible at this point). We have seen players assaulted by fans, and by other players with no recourse. Our officials abused pretty much every game by the opposition dugout. Threats made by players and managers alike pretty game followed through on and left unpunished. People off the park changing referees decisions mid game. Players sent off for being attacked. Players taken out the game through on goal 3/4 times already and no foul given. And thats just a few of fthe obstackes .We have no chance

 

We are what we are. A very poor side with no financial might in a very poor league with a competitor who earns 3 times as much as us with all infrastructure aimed against us. A support who is hated but cant stick together.

 

We are hated and need to do more than most to succeed. Buying more players or managers ain't going to change anything.

 

The only vast improvement we could see in the near future is for the cheating to stop and our position to rise as a result.

[Frankie 8,150]

Poor overall result....

 

Firstly the ref....for the most part, I though he had a decent game - that all crumbled in the dying minutes though. I can understand him taking his time over the penalty decision - he want's to make the right call , however it then descended into farce.

 

the penalty was a clear stonewall penalty, however, it wasn't a clear goal scoring opportunity so no reason for B/Foot to see red. It also wasn't a bad/dirty challenge, so even a yellow could have been deemed harsh. It was a straight forward foul inside the box, nothing malicious & nothing to argue.

 

The Jack B/foot incident - total stupidity on Jack's part. He was clearly being goaded by B/Foot, and let himself get suckered in instead of walking away. It's difficult to tell from the video footage whether Jack makes an actual advance with his head, or whether it is just natural movement, but it wasn't that that made B/foot fall....it was a clear push by Jack. B/foot then goes down (anyone get a view of the sniper???), clutching his face in apparent agony, remaining motionless for a short period. I believe it is clear from the video that there is NO head contact, and therefore B/foot should receive retrospective action from the CO for simulation. The Ref has deemed Jacks actions as a yellow card (correct decision). Candeias lines up his penalty for a 2nd time, only to be stopped again following the ref's change of heart & a red is shown to Jack. What additional information did the ref receive & from whom??? Not sure if there was comms with the linesman prior to the Yellow card....if there was it would then probably be down to the 4th official. That being the case, why did the 4th official not make his thoughts clear before the yellow was shown??? or has he viewed a TV replay??? Lets be honest, everyone's attention was on Candeias & the penalty. I think, based on the video, Jack will get the red card rescinded or downgraded back to a yellow, and B/foot should receive a ban - I doubt that will happen though.

 

Pedro demanded a response form the players...did he receive it - NO. I think from the wee post-match interview, it's clear that he believes the same - you can hear it in his voice,he sounds so deflated.

We played pretty decently in the 1st half, but I think the biggest change was when Nemane came on - we seemed to lose a lot of momentum at that point....everything suddenly became flat & laboured. Is this an indication of what Windass brings to the team, or is it simply the fact that we can't play properly past 60mins??? From that point on Candeias disappeared as well.

 

As others have said, 1-0 up with a couple of mins to play & receive a penalty. We should have been home & dry with a 2-0 win. Should Candeias have taken the penalty...with hindsight, no but at the time I would have no reason for him not to take it.

So where does that leave Pedro??? The fans are clearly not happy with what they are seeing on a regular basis. I think many fan appreciate that there is a good team in there somewhere - the players have the ability - but for whatever reason, they are not showing it. PC said at the start of the week, there is effectively only so much that he can do. The players are performing very will in training etc but come game time it all goes "oot the windae". Why are we playing decent/well for fairly long periods of the match, then suddenly collapsing??? PC is a stats/analysis man....I would suggest that he looks are recent stats & tries to identify any patterns ie. 60min collapse. Are certain things happening when specific players start or subbed??? I believe we are not far from having a good team - we have the six pack, but lack the wee plastic bit to hold the cans together. PC & the backroom staff MUST find that plastic bit ASAP....if not he will be oot the door.

 

The 4th official made the decision and I didn't see him consult any video.

 

As for PC, rightly or wrongly, I think he's now done for but I'm not so sure who will get more out of these players - some of whom are clearly not learning from their mistakes.

[trublusince1982 243]

Sorry but if you bring down a player in the box with no effort at winning the ball with the sole intention of stopping the chance developing in the last minute of play. its a clear red by the rules of the game.

[BEARGER 1,829]

The Jack sending off. The referee is right on the spot, he’s the first person to reach Jack. He sees exactly what happened, he gives a yellow to both players. We then see him stop the penalty taking and move towards the centre line main stand side, the 4th official goes onto the park. It obvious that the 4th official is talking to Ref over mic/earphones, the Ref gives Jack a red card. The 4th official was 50 yards from the incident, what did he see that the Ref missed?

If the Ref had missed the incident then fair enough the 4th official informing him, but the Ref saw it and made his decision. Who is in charge the Ref or 4th official?

[calscot 0]

You can't keep calling "troll" when people disagree with you dB.

 

And can we please refrain from the "sniff sniff" test - rangers_syntax, for example, has been here a long time and has shown nothing other than Rangers credentials - just because he disagrees with you doesn't make him a non-Ger - that is just silly.

 

Sometimes I wish people would just see it as it is (especially Scottish refs and COs).

 

To be fair, Gonzo does seem to be mildly trolling with his sarcasm, and to be fair, it does look a bit strange when supporter who comes on to mock fellow supporters after a bad result - especially when whatever implications are used for the attempt at humour, are not even close to the mark - no-one has said "everything will be fine". If nothing else, it certainly doesn't help, and when you try to wind people up, how can you complain when they actually get a bit wound up with you?

 

Maybe DB is expecting a bit more togetherness in bad times...

 

As for Rangers_syntax, either Gonzo's sarcasm goes way over his head, or he is at it to add to the wind up - not a million miles away from trolling.

 

None of it seemed to me to be anything to do with simple disagreement whatsoever.

[JohnMc 2,473]

Good enough to win if the ref does his job correctly.

 

Too many blinded by the fact we are not Rangers of old and never will be again. We are good enough to beat the team facing us but we are not good enough to beat the team and the referee facing us.

 

No manager is going to change that. None.

 

If not for referees we are in second spot 4 points better of at a bare minimum. The football bar a couple of minor tweaks is as good as we are going to get.

 

People need to wake up and stop blaming players and managers and boards for not being able to surmount the task before us. Its never going to happen.

 

You can't play your way out of this, it's impossible. They will just come down harder on us or give more ludicrous decisions (if possible at this point). We have seen players assaulted by fans, and by other players with no recourse. Our officials abused pretty much every game by the opposition dugout. Threats made by players and managers alike pretty game followed through on and left unpunished. People off the park changing referees decisions mid game. Players sent off for being attacked. Players taken out the game through on goal 3/4 times already and no foul given. And thats just a few of fthe obstackes .We have no chance

 

We are what we are. A very poor side with no financial might in a very poor league with a competitor who earns 3 times as much as us with all infrastructure aimed against us. A support who is hated but cant stick together.

 

We are hated and need to do more than most to succeed. Buying more players or managers ain't going to change anything.

 

The only vast improvement we could see in the near future is for the cheating to stop and our position to rise as a result.

 

I couldn't disagree with you more.

 

Kilmarnock are a poor side, the poorest in the league, yet if it wasn't for Fod we'd have lost last night. Frankly the ref blowing when he did was a blessing, our corners are more likely to create a chance for the opposition than they are for us.

 

You blame referees if you like but it's simply excuses, we're not good enough, we've no fight, no leaders and, it seems, we're lacking in fitness. We collapse half way through the second half far too frequently for it to be coincidence. After Sunday's disappointment facing the side bottom of the league, at home, was the perfect next match. We should have horsed Killie, the players should have been so motivated to prove all doubters wrong, to back the manager and to take out their frustrations on someone. We didn't. Something is lacking at the club, whether it's team spirit, pride, organisation, belief or a mix of all of them, but it's not the fault of referees and Ryan Jack is a naive fool. It's not the fault of referees that Morelos isn't being given the time and space he was earlier in the season. It's not the fault of referees Tav doesn't try and cut out deep crosses, it's not the fault of referees that Aaron Nemane looks out of his depth, it's not the fault of referees that Windass and John couldn't shoot for for toffee last night and it's not the fault of referees that Pena really doesn't look like he's suited to the Scottish game.

 

Scottish refereeing is poor, but so is Scottish football. But there's no conspiracy among referees to hamper Rangers, there just isn't, and believing that exists is stopping you seeing what's clearly wrong with our club.

[calscot 0]

yes i know, but you asked why the Killie players where in the box arguing.

 

I thought the rules are pretty clear and the referee's decision is final, it's called "dissent" and should be booked. If players are allowed to do that, games will start to take several hours.

 

Football really needs an massive overhaul in refereeing and it's amazing in this day and age how much they could learn from rugby - in that sport, only the captain is allowed to talk to the referee, and he has to do it respectfully. He would be allowed to explain his grievance to the referee and if the referee overruled it, he would have to just get on with it.

 

While you can't say if a player would score otherwise, it certainly doesn't seem fair to have all that going on for over five minutes before taking a spot kick.

 

As for a player deliberately winding another professional up by continually stepping on his toes and then falling to the ground like a pansy when he's pushed away, I'm disgusted at him as a player and a person. He's simply a cheat.

 

It's the kind of thing that deserves massively long bans in my opinion to "stamp" that kind of thing out of football. It should be what the CO is really about.

 

It's also the kind of thing that should be vilified by any journalists who are interested in the good of the game, but because it's Rangers, Jack will get the flack.

[jhunter 0]

When you defend the indefensible you have to expect people to call you out on it. I am not saying that is what happened here.

 

However, you continually defend people at the club (back to Green, Llambias, Leach, McCoist etc etc - not having a dig at that by the way), which is admirable - but when it appears to others that what you are saying is either fence sitting or plainly wrong then you can expect others to disagree with you. Gonzo wasn't goading you - he was lightly ribbing you because you have this "everything will turn out ok in the end" philosophy - again, admirable. But with each passing game it really does look like Pedro wont be able to turn us around - so when you defend him, defend the results, defend the performances, you HAVE to expect that others who disagree with you will tell you so.

 

If you consider it goading then it appears to me that you have a thin skin.

 

Gonzo's post was hardly trolling, IMO.

 

no

 

it isn't