On Reflextion And Looking Forward

[Gribz 743]

Its very strange though to read about these guys who still like more than the odd glass of wine though and don't pay much attention to their diets. These are supposed to be professional athletes who are earning an obscene amount of money. Most people I know who do any sort of regular exercise know that you have to look after yourself and if you do, you'll see benefits in your performance. So WFT is it so difficult for Scottish players to get it through their thick skull?

 

I see that some of the Hibs players have been having the exact same moans about some of John Collins' ideas about training, fitness and lifestyle.

 

Yeah plus it benefits the team, there performance and extends there playing career.

 

Yet these guys just seem to want to take the money and live the hotshot lifestyle. That would be ok if they were winning football matches on the weekend but they have been rank rotten and left us trophyless for 2 seasons now

[buster 0]

There's a few different topics going on here, no-one can deny what WS has achieved and how the results and performances under PLG were poor.

 

Couple of quick points though....

 

1. PLG was the boss. So what he said should have been law. No?

 

2. We're talking about professional athletes here. Surely they should have been welcoming a new, different, European approach with more emphasis on looking after yourself, diet, lifestyle and fitness.

 

3. The Gavin Rae quote is a really small and insignificant one, but it does worryingly, add a little bit more weight to all the rumours we've heard which suggest that there was friction in the dressing room, towards training or PLG or something/someone, which wasn't in the best interests of the club.

 

I bet we don't know the half of what went on behind the scenes under PLG. But then we said the same thing under AM.

 

I know DM gets a lot of stick, but I'm more convinced than ever that there's an element of player power in the dressing room which needs to be sorted out asap.

Player power seems to be prevlent in many dressing rooms these days.

Real Madrid, Barcelona are two big clubs who have suffered from this in recent times.

Then closer to home, there is Hibs.

 

The link/empathy between supporter and player is lessening and may possibly effect the popularity of football in the long-term.

Most supporters put the team first and hence unruly players become unpopular.

[buster 0]

Yeah plus it benefits the team, there performance and extends there playing career.

 

Yet these guys just seem to want to take the money and live the hotshot lifestyle. That would be ok if they were winning football matches on the weekend but they have been rank rotten and left us trophyless for 2 seasons now

Even the famous "who drinks together wins together" 9IAR team couldn�´t cut it at European level.

 

Walter�´s previous in the CL

-qualifier OUT, Sparta

-Gp. Stage, 2 wins and 4 draws

(qualifier was Polish team and Leeds, WS best european moment "british"opposition)

-qualifier OUT Levski

-qualifier OUT AEK

-Gp. Stage 3 draws and 3 defeats (qualifier was against Alania)

-Gp. Stage 1 win and 5 defeats (qualifier was against Anorthosis)

-qualifier OUT Gothenburg

 

Thats 3 wins in 18 games (group stage)

the rest we�´ll forget.

 

They could beat other scottish teams including a sellick in dissaray, with Laudrup, Hately and Gazzer hardly surprising.

But in europe what happened ?

[calscot 0]

I�´m not up for debate and nobody on here gives a F if I have a professional attitude at the workplace.

 

Ok but my point is that I think people expect far more "obedience" and "nose to the grindstone" from footballers than they would put up with at work themselves. Just because they are on high wages doesn't mean that you can treat them any old way and expect they will respond with full dedication. They are people after all.

 

What we care about is Rangers and I think it reasonable to expect-

 

1. That every player has a responsible and professional attitude to their work.

This encompasses many things such as diet etc.

 

2. That they follow the instructions of the manager to the letter.

That includes being told to concentrate on stretching or what position to play in a match situation.

 

I have agreed that that is fair enough but it is also up to the manager to keep a happy ship. Look what happened to Captain Bligh and his draconian methods... In fact that's probably a pretty good analogy. You need discipline on a ship but a good captain keeps his crew relaxed and content.

 

Now Rangers injury list over the years would have been smaller had the players been told to concentrate on small things like warm-ups, stretching etc.

When Wenger came in at Arsenal, the players thought "all this stretching was a waste of time", but they did it and it lengthened the careers of the likes of Adams, Keown, Dixon etc

Milan are thourgh aswell, Maldini and Costacurta could give some advice to their scottish collegues.

 

I think this is pure speculation and may be over simplification. We blamed injuries on not having proper training facilities, now we have them with proper medical equipment and staff, yet we still get lots of injuries. Sometimes I think we're just cursed...

 

When a manager arrives and trys to change a backward mentality prevelent in the scottish game it�´s understandable that it�´ll take time.

 

Firstly, it's debatable whether the mentality is backwards and also highly debatable whether any of PLG's methods were forward at all, and with the stories that come out I'm far from convinced. None of it correlates with modern day thinking on motivation and leadership. It obviously wasn't working and that includes about 13 non-Scottish players that Le Guen brought in, with not one of his recruits considered a first team choice now.

 

Anyway, if he was to change a backward mentality, then yes he would need time, yet it seems to me that HE was the one who wasn't patient. It takes time to change attitudes and going about it with a big stick is not the way. Ultimately he didn't even have the stomach or the patience himself for the job. I think a revolution at a football club has to be done slowly and carefully. You try to mould and convince your players to do things your way while carefully weeding out those who will never follow you and bit by bit bring fill the squad with good players who are 100% behind you.

 

It's impossible to convince people your methods work when they players you bring in who do it your way are complete pants and worse than those already there. You need good examples to convince people not rubbish ones.

 

PLG failed on so many levels that his tenure was like a car crash.

 

Surely it was reasonable for the players to do what they were told.

They are well paid and haven�´t got the type of recent record to say "don�´t show us new tricks".

 

But no-one has said they didn't. But in the end you can only push people so far - especially in their private life. You can't expect to control them 24/7. If my boss told me to cancel a Christmas party when it wouldn't interfere in any way with work, I'd be telling him where to stick it.

 

Bad, bad, BACKWARD man management. The only way it makes any sense is either a huge ego or the "working his ticket" theory.

 

What I will say is PLG�´s man mgmt. skills might have been better but it was our own players, doctor etc. and ultimately fans who didn�´t give the new regime a chance.

 

They had a chance alright and blew it completely. Managers know what type of results are unacceptable and there is no way our results were Le Guen's grand scheme going to plan. His methods were clearly not getting even minimum, bottom line results and he was unable to change this at any stage. It a nutshell, he got it well wrong and he knows it.

 

When you have one chance at something you can't afford to get it that badly wrong.

 

No company is going to give you time if you are sinking it further than it was before after you've told them you can turn it around. You have to work above the minimum parameters and PLG failed to do so.

 

Now our club is going no-where, we may win the CIS next season, even the spl in 2/3 years but in the big picture Rangers have sent all the message they are to remain a wee club.

 

Eh? I'm sorry, what results are you looking at?

 

Under WS we've had a run of results that would have won the league any year if projected over a season. We are the BEST team in Scotland under Smith.

 

I think you and I have different criteria over what makes a successful manager. Dropping 30 points in 23 games is not going a better place than dropping 4 points in 11 games.

 

I really, really don't understand your logic.

 

To be honest it feels like some people are fantasising about us being a big European player under Le Guen and it's such a nice dream they just don't want to let it go, even though reality has crashed around them.

 

Le Guen ended up being a nightmare and we've woken up to a reality that from where I sit isn't as bad as you seem to think. Yes we've had a bad season but PLG has been its architect, not WS.

[buster 0]

Calscot

We are never going to agree mate, are we ?

 

For me the unprofessionalism of some of our players if not treated in a "strict" manner won�´t change.

No change means, same old story....we didn�´t bring PLG in for same old.

 

You say it�´s debatable if the Scots have a "backward mentality", you won�´t find many lawyers wanting to defend that one.

 

Xmas party was sanctioned after BF promised that players wouldn�´t drink, however they did

 

As for your logic ref. league performence under WS, wait until next season as sellick won�´t play as badly as at present.

[R.B. 0]

4-0 win at the weekend for plg.

 

Against a team rooted to the bottom of the league, still a decent result though and he looks like he will save them from relegation.

[calscot 0]

Calscot

We are never going to agree mate, are we ?

 

I'm sure we will on a different subject...

 

For me the unprofessionalism of some of our players if not treated in a "strict" manner won�´t change.

No change means, same old story....we didn�´t bring PLG in for same old.

 

But the players have changed under Walter. If they had played like that under PLG or even Eck, neither would have had to leave.

 

That suggest to me that one out of three managers knows how to get the best out of the players he has. If players could just play their best without a manager then we wouldn't have needed PLG in the first place.

 

I don't think WS takes any nonsense but he does allow the guys to have a laugh and drink in moderation at the right time. He keeps a happy camp and it seems to work for Rangers and Scotland with the same players.

 

You say it�´s debatable if the Scots have a "backward mentality", you won�´t find many lawyers wanting to defend that one.

 

Maybe but like I said I've not been impressed with Le Guen's so called "forward thinking". It doesn't agree with the worlds top experts on leadership and motivation as well as managing change.

 

Xmas party was sanctioned after BF promised that players wouldn�´t drink, however they did

 

Human nature... it's naive to think you can fight it.

 

As for your logic ref. league performence under WS, wait until next season as sellick won�´t play as badly as at present.

 

We only gained 3pts from Celtic but it's the paltry two points we've dropped from the lower teams that's made a massive difference as well as only dropping two points to the top five.

 

It is championship challenging form against ANY Celtic side.

 

What remains to be seen is who both sides of the OF recruit and how they fit in and improve the team.

 

I think we need to give Walter a decent but not bank breaking amount to spend. Say 8M. However my hopes are slim.

[buster 0]

 

I don't think WS takes any nonsense but he does allow the guys to have a laugh and drink in moderation at the right time. He keeps a happy camp and it seems to work for Rangers and Scotland with the same players.

 

 

Maybe but like I said I've not been impressed with Le Guen's so called "forward thinking". It doesn't agree with the worlds top experts on leadership and motivation as well as managing change.

 

I think we need to give Walter a decent but not bank breaking amount to spend. Say 8M. However my hopes are slim.

 

That my friend is the crux of the matter....

It worked for Walter "drink together win together/not this time it won´t" Smith before and it seems to be again, so far so good

But he didn´t cut it outwith Scotland, neither before or this season.

As for Scotland, he also has to contend with a stronger sellick this time round.

 

As for budget, Walter with Laudrup and Gazzer couldn´t make an impression on europe so let´s think how much he´d need in todays market,.....I´d hazard a guess at 25-30M and he might have a wee chance in europe