On Reflextion And Looking Forward

[calscot 0]

This was pretty much the same team which presumably, with AM in charge, were enjoying their training more yet still lost the title by 20 points.

 

You would think that they would have been accepting of some change to try to improve fortunes on the field - obviously not.

 

Yes, under Eck they were 20pts behind after a season, under Le Guen they were 17pts behind after HALF a season. Great step forward that was.

 

Who says they were enjoying the training under Eck anyway? And who says they didn't do what PLG asked? All that has been said is they didn't enjoy the training. No-one said they refused to do it.

[R.B. 0]

Doesn�´t put PLG in a good light.........WTF !!!!!

 

Then what about the players ?

Ferguson and Co. want to earn all there thousands of pounds each week but instead of doing what your told by the boss, ie. shut up and concentrate on your stretching because the injuries at this club have been too regular.......no.....they want a laugh and a joke ,,oh and by the way we�´re starting too early boss and about that afternoon session.

 

How the feck can you defend players who aren�´t interested in improving their performences and doing what they are told.

A captain that leads the rebellion, that since he�´s took up the armband hasn�´t been too Hampden even for a semi-final, don�´t talk about the title.

 

If we the supporters, defend the players in this then we have NO ambition for our club or are plain stupid.

 

Too many of our players are professionly paid amateurs, when a Falkirk player (Gow) seems to have a more professional attitude than the majority at Ibrox is our current predicament surprising ?

 

I think there is a bit of a difference between carrying on / joking and staying totally silent which is what Rae said.

 

Can you really imagine even Alex Ferguson or Jose Mourinho demanding total silence when training?

[ian1964 10,418]

I don't think we will ever find out what went on and IMO i don't buy into the rumours, maybe these things did happen but i don't think you can base PLGs failure on that alone, i honetly think he under estimated the Rangers job and the SPL along with his poor english, so there are a lot of reasons why he failed, but again will we ever hear the truth ?

[calscot 0]

A top manager will try to get the players to do what is effective while trying to keep things as enjoyable as possible.

 

If the experts think that silence is best then the manager should explain this carefully to the players, with the reasons, then ask them to be silent for the ten minutes of stretching and tell them they are free to laugh and joke afterwards. He needs to build a rapport which from all accounts it seems that he was unable to do this.

 

Football is after all a game, and it generally considered most players play better when they enjoy themselves on the pitch.

 

I still think he should have done something like bring in Ally McCoist or Richard Gough to help with training and build that rapport.

 

Aloofness rarely works long term in football and even Alex Ferguson doesn't seem to come across as someone who doesn't generally get on with his players.

 

The ones he tends to fall out with are either way under performing or have over inflated egos.

 

There is also the factor where it's well known that you need to manage change in a workforce's environment and working practices. It's very naive to think you can go in somewhere and make sweeping changes without huge resistance from present employees.

 

I also don't get this early start thing. It may be the culture in France but that doesn't mean it works universally.

 

Again it's well known that most people's physical performance peaks and troughs with their body temperature which is low in the morning and at it's highest in the late afternoon. Most people aren't up to speed at anything until mid morning.

 

So why was Le Guen not optimising training to fit your average person's peak performing times?

 

The thing is, the more more I hear about Le Guen's methods the more he seems like a throw back to ignorant times, rather than in keeping with most progressive thinking.

 

I really can't see HOW he could have taken us forward... If anyone is going to take us forward it will be a forward thinking man, Le Guen was not that man at that time and it painfully showed.

 

To be honest, I'm so much happier with a man who tells it as it is and sees things that seem obvious to almost everyone. Only the other night a pundit was saying that Walter identified that the defence needed shoring up but that was plain for everyone to see. Everyone except Le Guen that is.

 

I don't know what happened to such a previously successful manager but a lot of it points to his ego over inflating and blinding him to the bleeding obvious. He pigheadedly stuck to his route down the wrong path when it makes sense that a manager has to be flexible and adapt to his conditions.

[craig 5,199]

 

I think the ones slagging the players off about professionalism should look themselves in the mirror and decide if you trully follow those incrdibly strict ideals yourself...

 

The fact you spend any time at all on here suggests that you are talking garbage. You may not be at work but I bet you could spend the time thinking about problems at work or learning something to improve your work.

 

I smell the stench of hypocrisy.

 

Absolutely disagree calscot.

 

As one of the onesgiving the players a hard time I will respond.

 

I can easily look myself in the mirror and tell you that I do follow the ideals - the argument is about doing what your boss tells you because he thinks that it oozes professionalism.

 

I can categorically say that I do what my boss tells me at all times as it is my job to follow instructions. Posting on here is done when I have down time - the start of training for the players is most important but some decided they didn't like that.

 

Your analogy of "not being at work but thinking about problems" is a poor analogy as well. Are you missing the fact that when the players are stretching in the morning they are at work and expected to be doing as told ? When they are at home do you think they are thinking about problems at work ? Or are they playing with their games consoles and counting their cash ? How many of those players do you think are trying to improve themselves when they are not at work ? By this seasons performances I would suggest not a lot.

 

You can call it hypocrisy all you like - but given you know not of what the requirements at work are for any of us you have no insight to make such judgements. But then, given that you aren't slagging off the players it is convenient for you to label those who are......

[Gribz 743]

A top manager will try to get the players to do what is effective while trying to keep things as enjoyable as possible.

 

His methods worked wonders at Lyon to deliver 3 titles for them, so he must have been effective there.

 

If the experts think that silence is best then the manager should explain this carefully to the players, with the reasons, then ask them to be silent for the ten minutes of stretching and tell them they are free to laugh and joke afterwards. He needs to build a rapport which from all accounts it seems that he was unable to do this.

 

Yes he maybe should explain his reasons. I dont think many of us on here are stretching experts but we all know its important to stretch properly. But if someone is pointing and having a laugh with a teammate its obvious concentration levels will be down the job may not be getting done right.

 

Also, i dont think he would have minded a laugh and a joke, but I can just imagine PLG coming in and trying to install a professional attitude but all he would have heard was F*** this and F*** that and probably couldnt understand anything except the F*** word.

 

I also don't get this early start thing. It may be the culture in France but that doesn't mean it works universally.

 

Again it's well known that most people's physical performance peaks and troughs with their body temperature which is low in the morning and at it's highest in the late afternoon. Most people aren't up to speed at anything until mid morning.

 

So why was Le Guen not optimising training to fit your average person's peak performing times?

 

This is an assumption. Some people are morning people while others are night people. But young fit atheletes should have no problem getting up at certain time in a day when they are being paid 1000s of pounds a week and doing a job they love and a job everyone envys.

 

Personally Im not a morning person around 8am, but i find if im up around 6am taking a nice walk or run I find it pieceful and refreshing.

 

I really can't see HOW he could have taken us forward... If anyone is going to take us forward it will be a forward thinking man, Le Guen was not that man at that time and it painfully showed.

 

Its something we will never know. But there is a saying as you need to take a step back in order to go forward. And who is to ever know how far forward it may have been!!!

[calscot 0]

Absolutely disagree calscot.

I can categorically say that I do what my boss tells me at all times as it is my job to follow instructions. Posting on here is done when I have down time - the start of training for the players is most important but some decided they didn't like that.

 

That may be the case, but no-one has said that any of the players did not follow instructions. What is said is that players didn't enjoy certain aspects of their work that they used to.

 

Like I said if you had a new boss who came in and set the start time 2 hours earlier and home time 2 hours later and then banned chatting etc would you be happy? Would you not slag him off after he's been sacked? Especially if your companies performance took a nose dive and the atmosphere at work became horrible.

 

Say then a new boss comes along who relaxes things, makes everything fun and enjoyable, and your company coincidentally has the best run of results for years - would you still not slag your old boss off?

 

Professionalism is not all about being serious and silent, in fact most would say it's the total opposite hence the popularity of team building events.

 

I think you are taking the old fashioned view of professionalism, but I put it to you that the Rangers team have been far more professional on the park since the manager change. How do you explain this with your theory that there is now a reduction professionalism?

 

Your thinking may seem to make sense to you from old fashioned values but it just doesn't agree with the results.

 

I would also ask in what way PLG was being professional? I thought his press conferences and interviews were about the most unprofessional I've seen from a Rangers manager - ever. They were shocking and I won't take language as an excuse. If he'd taken my advice and brought in the likes of Richard Gough as number 2 or 3, he could have delegated some of the communications responsibilities - just as Hearts have now learned to do.

 

Is it professional to slag off your top scorer to the media - especially when striker thrive on confidence?

 

Is it professional to leak to the press that as a manager you are being undermined or is it more professional to actually deal with it in house?

 

The thing is, I think we differ on the semantics of "professionalism".

 

I also want to know why that Le Guen brought in 13 players of his own choosing, more than a team, yet these players did not flourish under his new "professional" regime? In fact they were worse than the players you are having a go at? How is that explained?

 

I'm sorry but the facts just don't support this "professionalism" theory and it seems to be people just looking for a reason why such a highly acclaimed manager could have possibly failed - without blaming him.

 

To me the proof is in the pudding and WS has clearly shown that the players were not unworkable - and that the previous manager clearly failed to get anywhere near the best out of them.

 

Players don't work like machines, they are people with personalities and people like Smith realise that you have to do a lot of people management to get the best out of them.

 

PLG simply had not yet learned this.

[calscot 0]

His methods worked wonders at Lyon to deliver 3 titles for them, so he must have been effective there.

 

Three years is a short managerial career. Many managers have had success at one club and failed at the next. To be a great manager you have to be able to do it where-ever you go. Just because you train up one derby winner does not mean you can apply the exact same techniques with a different horse - especially a hurdler instead of a flat racer.

 

There is a different method to taking a championship winning team in France and keep them winning with plenty of money to spend on tweaking the squad than taking a giant of a club in Scotland who have their worst squad in over twenty years and overturning the leaders in a two horse race with little money to spend - especially when you don't spend all of it and what you do spend is done badly.

 

Sometimes is easier to be successful when you are proving yourself and building a reputation, when you are highly lauded it is easy to believe your own hype and forget that you had to look for answers instead of just thinking you know them all.

 

 

Yes he maybe should explain his reasons. I dont think many of us on here are stretching experts but we all know its important to stretch properly. But if someone is pointing and having a laugh with a teammate its obvious concentration levels will be down the job may not be getting done right.

 

Perhaps, but it's not a given that you have to be silent and if you want players to happily follow your instructions is it not best to have a rapport? There is no need to be draconian - and it's pretty well proven that that doesn't work. We learned that from DA's last two seasons.

 

Also, i dont think he would have minded a laugh and a joke, but I can just imagine PLG coming in and trying to install a professional attitude but all he would have heard was F*** this and F*** that and probably couldnt understand anything except the F*** word.

 

That's a bit contrived, but like I say, it's up to him to people manage the players and get a rapport going. The one thing I remember that he kept going on about is "respect" but he seems not to have learned that respect is earned and doesn't come automatically. Great leaders instantly earn respect and they rid themselves of those who then don't respect them before they can do any damage. It is stressed in football all the time that you have to have the dressing room behind you.

 

This is an assumption. Some people are morning people while others are night people. But young fit atheletes should have no problem getting up at certain time in a day when they are being paid 1000s of pounds a week and doing a job they love and a job everyone envys.

 

It's not an assumption, it's the results of research. The conclusions of the research may not be fact, but you have to base your concepts on something and peer reviewed research is about as tangible as it gets. Money is not a motivator and if you're being paid a lot to do something, then your job becomes worse, the same wage as before is no compensation - ever.

 

Personally Im not a morning person around 8am, but i find if im up around 6am taking a nice walk or run I find it pieceful and refreshing.

 

You will find it nigh on impossible to get me out of bed for a run at 6am and I'd resent you for trying. However, try and stop me playing footie or tennis or squash or touch rugby at lunchtimes. Which will get me fitter in the long term?

 

If I suddenly had to get to work at 7am I'd be looking for a new job, especially if I could easily get one where I have to be in at 9:30 and get paid the same.

 

One of the troubles here is that continental Europe tend to get up earlier than the UK - but funnily enough it is reckoned that people in the UK work harder and longer...

 

In Spain they have siestas - that doesn't mean a Spanish manager should try and introduce that here...

 

Its something we will never know. But there is a saying as you need to take a step back in order to go forward. And who is to ever know how far forward it may have been!!!

 

Taking a step backwards at an already backwards Rangers will NEVER be acceptable. Who is to say that PLG after taking about 10 steps backwards in 7 months would ever take us the 20 steps forwards that we then needed. There was no light at the end of the tunnel from where I was standing.

 

There is another saying, "when you realise you are digging a huge hole, you have to stop digging", or "great progress on the wrong road will take you nowhere", or paraphrasing Gordon Ramsay, "when your recipe isn't working, you can't continually try to fix it, you have to start all over again." How about, "if you keep doing the same thing, you will likely get the same results" and "You cannot change what you don't acknowledge".

 

So my answer is, you never know how far backward we could have gone without ever going forward...

[Super_Ally 0]

I do find it baffling that the guys who still rue PLG's departure thought he could drag us even furtehr backwards before taking us forwards again.

 

As i'm sure Calscot has mentioned in other threads before, name one great manager who made a team a lot worse before making them better than when he took over? It just doesn't happen that way.

 

You do what WS did, initally you steady the ship, you plug the obvious gaps. Smith brought in some decent CB's fixed the defence. And with virtually the same team we're on one of our best runs of results in years.

 

I think PLG's time here and even his mediocre performance subsequently with PSG shows that he was capable of keeping a vastly superior Lyon side at the top of the pile, but is not very capable of turning around a struggling team. Perhpas his reputation was not merited.

[Super_Ally 0]

edit: double post