maineflyer

Barrybaldy is almost certainly a journalist and suspicion seems to fall in the direction of Darrly King, who seems to want to post some of his insight on website forums rather than in his newspaper.

Hey mister, is this where the Rangers haters hang out?

Bloody hell, you must know something I haven't been told yet!

FF has become far too personal and too political to be credible. You can't allow only one half of the debate, censor everything lese out of hand and still claim credibility. Haven't been near it in 20 months.

Farking ageist snipperwhapper. :box:

Isn't it strange how often the words don't match the reality. I've also noticed a growing intolerance and tendancy towards closed shop mentality. Funny what goes around comes around. It's a mystery to me what on earth you could have been banned for, apart from not automatically jumping into line and agreeing with everyone else. :devil: Although I post regularly on some forums and occasionally in others, much to my surprise I've found my original thoughts on Gersnet completely contradicted and I think you'll go a long way to find a more agreeable place to debate and share opinion - or a more tolerant community (or I'm damned sure I wouldn't have survived). That's tolerant, not easy or forgiving, which is how it should be. I don't mean to sound like a brown nose, just saying what I think.

My mistake, sorry. You're right though, everywhere you look there is someone looking at you and deciding what you should or shouldn't do. My father's generation wouldn't have accepted this - mind you they wouldn't have done it either. It's worth taking a minute to consider the mentality that has to have excessively loud music at football matches in case people communicate with each other. People from other countries think it's beyond belief when you tell them.

I wouldn't argue with anything you say needs done but I've probably written more letters to the club, media, football authorities, and politicians than the RST has done. If I thought the RST had done half as much as it should have these last five years, that would be ten as much as it actually has done. It is the organistaion that should be doing these things but the actual impact has been almost indiscernible, which is why I fear so much about their self-styled role in the fan ownership proposals.

It's not pessimism. I'd love to see two things - standing at footy matches and an end to the deafening music they play. But we know there are reasons for these things and I've never yet in my lifetime seen the authorities give up any means of control once they had it. The police think they need to know who is sitting in every seat for identification purpose and they will never risk the thought of the free assembly of people at a public football match, which standing would allow. I think you'll find the police are the Jeremiahs here.

They'll stop it by refusing to grant a safety certificate. Whether they would actually do that or not I don't know.

Every time I read something about this guy Duffy, someone else chips in with doubts about his character and suitability for Rangers. What's this all about - are their skeletons in his cupboards?

Elderslieblue, I'll give you this much, the RST is trying very hard at the moment to do something. I don't know what it is and it's unfair to criticise too much in ignorance. Better to stick to what I can see, which is a flourish of publicity to coincide with what I believe is an attempt by the RST to assert a position with respect to whatever ownership the club may have in future. The RST has published 13 articles on its website since 2nd October this year - probably more than the previous four years put together - it's hard to be sure since the past has been swept fully away in the current cleansing. What I can't see is any sign of campaigning for away fans in Europe that you mention. There is one very brief statement that some individual board members will forward to the club descriptions of their Bucharest experience, along with any contributions from other fans that they receive. There is certainly nothing whatsoever asserting one view or another - no mention of the dreadful treatment in Spain, Manchester, or elsewhere and no calls for better planning or conditions. I believe the RSA may have done more on this but I don't anything to hand and there is nothing I can see on their website. However, what intrigues me most about your post is the inference that the RST have somehow been either active or have achieved any of the success you indicate is worthy of your support. My complaint has never been that the RST exist, I've been a regular member and life member myself and have always said the RST should be the centre of the Rangers supporter's world. My problem with the RST is that they have simply failed to do the sort of campaigning that you seem to think has been going on. It is their dire lack of achievement that disappoints me, and the reasons behind this. Five years .... and what exactly? What is different, what has been achieved that actually makes life better for Rangers fans? Have conditions actually improved for the away fan in Europe - have they? Has the RST created the rallying point for supporter pressure on the club or the regulating bodies? Has the RST actually mobilised opinion or educated and unified the wider support ... has it? Or are we really just dealing with words of self-publicity? The evidence seems to suggest it might be, if lack of tangible progress can be taken as evidence of under-achievement. The RST membership has fallen dramatically over he last two years, the one sure and measurable indicator of general support for the work of the RST is clearly judging them in ways other than your own. What's the reason for this? It's certainly not that the Trust hasn't had time or opportunity to make better progress. Could it possibly be that it simply hasn't been done at all well? Could it be that the concept is OK but that the execution has been decidedly underwhelming? You say you're not interested in previous bloodletting but I respectfully suggest you should be. The bloodletting you refer to was orchestrated by a small number of people, perhaps for the best of reasons for all I know, who are the same people who have under-achieved the mission, lost the membership and alienated large chunks of the support. These people continue to direct the Trust and these are the same people who are now assuming both the right and the ability to negotiate a fan ownership scheme. For my part, I fail to see where the right comes from with such a tiny membership to represent - and I fail utterly to see the personal qualities required for an enterprise like fan ownership. In short, I have no problem with the RST but I have enormous problems and a profound lack of confidence in those running it. If you have found reasons to think otherwise then good on you, I only react to what I actually see. It seems obvious to me that we now have a RST board that has been trying desperately over the last few weeks to place a veneer of action and credibility on the idle inactivity of previous years .... with the intent of deflecting criticism from it's involvement in the fan ownership project. This smacks of rank and temporary opportunism and I'll be extremely concerned if these people succeed in positioning themselves as the ones to represent the fans in any such scheme. It really would be ironic if they ended up by default with a membership of tens of thousands when they haven't been able to earn much more than one thousand by their own efforts. I strongly recommend to every Rangers supporter to view the inner circle of the current RST with great caution. Not because there are no good people involved, there are. Not because the organisation doesn't have any merit or potential, it does. But because the evidence demands it and the future of the club is far too important to be place in the hands of ambitious individuals who have consistently placed personal agendas before the club and the fans ... and who, beyond the rhetoric, have actually achieved so little.

Did you get banned - I saw you take some flack but thought you handled it well. I thought the people running VB made a big point about free speech and everyone being entitled to their views without censure. It would be disappointing to think that's a fiction too.

Indeed they are. And two more - fire & frying pan (OK, three words)

I just hope those concerned have as much talent as they have ambition because this is one hell of a serious step they're taking. One where intent alone is not enough but where considerable resources and experience will be necessary. I'm not known for beating about bushes when it comes to decision making but big outcomes require careful planning by big players. I only hope there are people involved on behalf of the Trust because everything I've seen of the Trust itself tells me it just doesn't have the experience on board to make fan ownership work.

Well there's a big fat surprise, you've nothing to offer as back up for the wild claims of truth from the RST. Right, now that you've relegated "truth" to "agree with", how about you give some examples of things the RST has actually either said or done that you've agreed with "in recent years"? As ever, I won't be holding my breath while you mull it over.

I've been doing that for years. So tell me again, since I missed it last time..... what truth is it the RST seem to be speaking? One small example, I'm serious, I've never looked forward to anything so much for a long time.

Oh shit, I've got to hear this ...what truth is that then? Make it good.

But Walter will win us this league, haven't you heard that one. Apparently it's why we mustn't at any cost lose him between now and the end of this season. You have to feel for those Rangers fans who have a three or four hour bus ride home after that embarrassment. Thirty years ago the director would simply issue a statement to the press that Walter Smith had stood down by mutual agreement.

OK so you don't want to answer my question, I don't blame you. There is no fukking point to the RST, as they've shown time and again. Instead of trying to act as a focal point for opinion, they've alienated just about everyone they've ever come up against. Pointless and pathetic, and they're still at it.

So what's the point of them existing at all?

By the process of elimination..........................

There have been less reliable commentators.

That's a hell of a revealing statement (quoted in bold) I'd say without fear of contradiction that you'll get all the silence you can handle. In that respect, they're nothing if not professional.

I'll start by saying I don't know what's behind this, so no claims of insight or inside track. However, thinking about this statement in context, it does start to reveal a side of things that hasn't been on my radar screen before. Clearly, Murray is spinning. There are elements of his statement that are contradictory and really quite mischievous. It begins to look as if Murray has an axe on the grindstone but it's difficult to see exactly which one. Some of his points seem directed at those who are now (at least in name) running the club and you could be forgiven for thinking he sees some of them as complicit in forcing his 'removal' from the board of Rangers. There are definite elements of fightback in those words and that would spell very bad news for Rangers. Instead of a new future ahead, we could well be heading for a lengthy period of stagnation and a retreat to the past. Does Murray want out or not. I've never believed he wanted anything other than to remain in charge or else to sell at what the world could see to be his terms alone. In a statement that was unnecessary and probably unwelcomed by everyone, Murray seems to be resentful in all directions..... the club officials, the bank, the supporters. He has certainly decided to re-assert his pre-eminence at Rangers - it's about what he had said all along - it's about his interpretation of what's "best for the football club" - it's about him deciding when any sale of assets will take place. What I take from this is that Murray is back (although, in reality, he never left) and reminding everyone that they can speculate all they like but he alone holds the aces. And far too much debt throughout his organisation for any bank to play more brinksmanship than he's comfortable with. It alludes to the possibility of collusion between current directors and some at Lloyds Bank in trying to leverage Murray's position, something he would resent in abundance. I think the next few months could be hugely intriguing but my take on this is that it spells very, very bad news for those looking for an upturn in Rangers fortunes. Murray's financial situation doesn't change just because he make statements or raises his bluster factor a couple of notches. But it does signal intent and that is crucial in reaching any kind of tipping point in the current process. The RST can safely take the Christmas holiday without taxing their 17 plan strategy too much. There is no opening for them, little support (other than to some degree in principle), and no chance of any deal with the current RST team while Murray is still around. The small group of opportunists who have certainly, and in contradiction to Murray's headline, made their interest known are also being sent a strong signal hear - get serious of piss off. Decks cleared. Stand down the guard, status quo is assured for a while yet, the rot continues.