amms

I'm a Glaswegian so I'll bow to your greater experience, ya gloryhunter:yesrfc::grin: There was a good piece on that Rangers Standard today again, a Fifer talking about how his folks weren't keen on our type of Protestantism. I'm paraphrasing badly but he made an interesting point and relevant to this thread.

My sons are still too young to have picked up an interest in football yet. I tell my wife I'll let them choose themselves who to support. The funny thing is she believes me! I know a few guys who were Third Lanark fans, one was a ballboy there. Both are Rangers fans now funnily enough. Obviously the big difference between when Thirds went under and now is TV and the internet. I lived in Belfast for a while and was stunned how little interest there was in the local clubs, yet football was really popular. But almost everyone supported Man U or Liverpool with us coming a distant third. It was even worse in the Republic of Ireland, at least in Belfast I knew genuine supporters of local clubs, I've never met anyone in the south who ever attended a local match. I went to watch Crusaders on a regular basis, the standard was meh, but I had the habit of attending football in person and wanted to keep doing that. I guess the point i'm making is that actually attending matches is something you need introduced too by someone. There are parallels for us to draw on, as well as Ireland(s) Austria and Belgium are also countries with larger dominant neighbours that are culturally and linguistically almost identical. Their leagues are also in decline where once they had clubs that were European forces.

That's a view certainly. Had we more cordially relations things might have turned out differently, but they might not have to be fair. If you never take notice of others it's hard to learn anything about yourself of course.

There was a time when clubs like Dundee and Hearts had a strong 'Unionist/Royalist' element to their support, that's almost died away now. I wonder if eventually that'll happen to us too. I've mixed feelings about it but I agree it annoys some others. I'm less convinced about supporters not following their local team. That's gone on for a long, long time. If anything it should have the opposite effect, where we're not some remote metropolitan elite, we're the guy next door.

I'd still fancy us for second place in the SPL though.

Interesting point. How many of us support a different club to our fathers or our brothers, indeed for some of us do your children support the same club as you? I ask because I wonder if that is what would happen. My concern in this is that the next generation will end up supporting Man Utd or Real Madrid. If the culture of going to a game is lost and those clubs remain omnipresent on TV and in the media then surely that's where the next generation will go?

So do you allow the 'free market' to create that change or do you impose it from above?

There was definitely glee, we enjoyed it and mocked them but I don't recall anything more than that. Certainly I don't remember anyone suggesting they should be kicked out the league or investigated despite there clearly being serious mismanagement at Celtic. It was a different time of course, there wasn't the internet for one which has fuelled a lot of what's gone on. But in truth I think most other supporters, ours included, simply shrugged their shoulders and got on with supporting their own teams. No one suggested boycotts or stripping of trophies.

You know I'm a fan of social media but if he was in any way serious surely he wouldn't post his letter on Twitter? He's looking for publicity, nothing else.

If we carried clout we wouldn't be getting ignored in all of this, and we are. Clout isn't about the numbers we bring it's about the influence we have, we currently don't have very much of that. Other than that I enjoyed your piece, thanks.

I agree that a lot of it is down to our success on the pitch and I'd be hoping to continue that for a long time to come. That explains a dislike of the team and a hope that the team will be poorer among other clubs. What has really surprised me has been the lack of empathy for the supporters, from pretty much everyone. Why should Hibs fans not feel empathy for us, they went through similar not that long ago, or indeed Hearts fans who are looking into a similar abyss themselves? Discounting the nutters in their support for a moment, why don't the more rational Hibs/Hearts fans feel a kinship with the more rational Rangers fan? It can't be just our on field success that's turned us into pariahs, there must be more to it. In my opinion it is worth our while trying to figure that out and working out what we do about it. Our total lack of friends has cost us very dearly this year.

Who do you think ruined our name and how CG? Equally how do you think we should go about reclaiming it?

Good stuff Andy. There can be little doubt Scottish football quality will deteriorate in the next few seasons as budgets are slashed and clubs get into bother. However, I wonder if mid to long term that this might be beneficial for the sport up here. The harsh reality is very few clubs have been run well recently. Self interest and financial expediency have been at the cost of a more competitive league and if anyone needed reminded the last weeks events have surely shown that the game in this country is run be self serving egotists who have no concept of what the game actually needs. It might be subconscious defence mechanism kicking in but I actually wonder if a period of relative poverty isn't exactly what the game here needs. Clubs forced to engage with their support, wider supports taking an interest in who runs their clubs and the decisions they make and a levelling of the financial imbalance between clubs might not be a bad thing. But I agree we're miles away from provincial clubs making European finals again.

As an aside is there any other team in the world who have an average attendance that's 1% of their grounds capacity? Zappa with the way feelings are running among supporters and a lot of clubs I think we should be pleased if we are in any league next season currently.

Haha, unfortunately any immaturity I display can't be put down to my age. As the guy who started the 'Rangers players I really disliked' thread last week I think I proved I'm able to criticise Rangers players, often without much justification too. I simply can't bring myself to criticise the players who left with the same vehemence others can. Indeed I worry that some of the real culprits in all of this are being overlooked for easier targets. The players did their bit, now they've moved on, as I explained above they might have actually done us a favour by doing that, although I accept that probably wasn't their intention. I generally always wish ex-players all the best, I see little to be gained by doing the opposite on this occasion.

Murderer? As you say yourself not your best analogy. I didn't put his 'misdeed' down to a mistake, I simply asked if all those slating him, some very strongly, had never made a mistake. I've made loads, some I really wish I could reverse. Time will tell if Davis leaving in the manner he did was a bad or good thing for us. Had he stayed we'd have need to pay him for at least one month, maybe longer. That's money that the club might be very grateful for in the near future. He'd have started preseason training by now, what if he picked up an injury and couldn't be sold in this transfer window, how would that have benefited us? As has been reported their is still some issues over who actually holds his registration, oldco or newco, what if any potential transfer fee went to the oldco and not 'newco'? I'm not absolving Davis, or any of the other players, but some of the vitriol they've received is, in my opinion, unwarranted. They were Rangers players once, they aren't now, all they did was leave, do you feel the same way about Brian Laudrup who left for nothing for example? Sometime in the future when we are finally able to look back on all this and see the full picture the players like Davis will have their place in the story, but they shouldn't be portrayed as villains. They helped the club earlier, they may have inadvertently helped the club again by leaving, they might have done the opposite, time will tell. In the scheme of things though they are way down at the bottom of the list of people we should vent our ire on, indeed they might be people who can help us again at some point in the future.

It's the most irony laden statement. Killie fans claim they wanted Rangers kicked out, it was the owner who didn't. The owner didn't because he is worried it will close Killie down. Killie fans didn't care about that. Kiilie fans then complain that they might close down because they've lost Rangers fans visits so please don't any other clubs fans not visit. Killie fans think the owner already knows they are going bust and was covering himself. What does it matter who comes visiting then?

I've no issue with the Raith statement, indeed I'm really surprised no one from the SFL has come out and stated 'break our agreement and we'll sue you' more publicly. The point highlighted by Blue Moon is interesting. My understanding is the SFA have to ask for the appellate tribunal to reconvene, they don't just do it on their own. So if the SFA don't ask them then no further sanctions are applied, if they do then further sanctions might be applied, including suspension from the league. It isn't unfair for Raith and the other SFL clubs to ask them to clear this up first.

Anyone on here never made a mistake then? Never done anything you looked back at later and wished you'd done differently? All the best Steven, you were a very good Rangers player and came across as a decent guy at the same time. Good luck down south.

In my 42 years on this earth I don't recall any one person or organisation being able to influence or rally a majority of the Rangers support. This forum, a small but good sample of our support, is a perfect example of that. Many differing views exist, some firmly held, some evolving as circumstances unfold, some informed and some guessed at. Many of us have done a full 360 turn in the last 12 months on a variety of subjects I'm sure. This belief that some hold that John Brown is swaying the Rangers support is surprising. He has his audience but it's small and getting smaller from what I hear of his performance the other night. I doubt many people are won over by his rhetoric, which has been hyperbolic and grandstanding but short on substance and thought. We're keen to pigeon-hole; if you're not supporting Green you must be supporting Brown, if you've not bought a season ticket you must be anti-Green. In fact the majority of Rangers supporters remain confused, guarded, cautious and concerned. It's obvious all is still far from stable at the club. How much blame for that Green should take will vary from person to person, but he should take some of it. He's in charge he should be communicating certain things far better than he has. Most supporters accept that a lot of what's going on is out of the hands of Green, the club and certainly the support. The SFA and the SFL will do their bit now. When that's all done and we can more clearly see the future most of us will form opinions on what we do next. Some will rally to an emotion charged recognisable ex-player, many won't. Some will show loyalty to the man in charge simply because he is the man in charge and controls the destiny of the club. Most will support the team on the pitch, remain suspicious of directors, governing bodies and leagues for a long time to come. When we know our league and our team our support will go back to supporting. Perhaps not in the numbers of before, but that will be dictated more by the quality on the pitch than any diktat from a website or minority fans body.

It's interesting but I came away from that feeling that McCoist now wants Division 3. He wants it because of the support's desire for it and also because he recognises just where the club is on the playing front.

You've got to feel sorry for a club like Stenhousemuir in all this. One thing I've not seen mentioned, surely someone would pick up the SFL TV rights if we were in Div 3, BBC Alba show some games currently, I'd have thought someone else might bid more than them for them. For £1.5 million a season you could show every Rangers away game, then all SFL clubs get their £50,000 the SPL are no longer kicking back. You know for that kind of money it would almost be worth the club buying the rights themselves. 10,000 bears paying £150 each could buy the rights to watch all our away games and ensure clubs like Stenhousemuir still get their £50 grand.

Jeez, that's harsh. Bluedell explained McCoist's stance, it sounded pretty fair and sensible to me. It's worth remembering that McCoist is an employee, albeit and important one for a number of reasons, him saying he won't endorse people he's not met and doesn't know, yet, seem's pretty fair.

I was of a similar mind to you until very recently. However the utter shambles of the last few days, Doncaster doing the bidding of the other cowardly SPL clubs, Regan threatening the SFL clubs and nobody taking any notice of what the fans want has finally convinced me that the whole edifice is rotten and needs replaced. That will require some of our clubs to close and start again. I actually think that will be a good thing in the long run. Clubs like Kilmarnock, Dundee Utd, Hearts and Aberdeen will never be able to clear their debt, that needs addressed. Many clubs have lost all touch with their supporters, our included, that needs fixed.

It's an incredible piece. Are they really suggesting that a number of SPL clubs went into that meeting undecided on how they were voting? Really? Because last week all but 3 of them had publicly indicated how they were voting, quite the volte-face. And so, having spent the weekend weighing everything up again, you know, sporting integrity against losing your club/business/personal guarantees, that sort of thing, they then changed their minds without telling their own supporters and the media? Surely not. So having had their Road to Damascus moment they went into the room at Hampden and saw a document what wasn't up to their personally high standards of document presentation, had a photo of Rangers on the back and thought 'nah, I'm changing my mind again'. Plus that Malcolm Murray sounds like a tosser. Right you are. These are the people running our game and we wonder why it's in the shitter.