amms

I expect an amnesty will be given to any clubs who get into financial difficulties over the coming season. Expect help from the SFA and the SPL, no points deductions and prize money paid upfront. You know, all the things we didn't get. I'm not being sarcastic, I genuinely think that's what'll happen. In the end Killie, Utd, Motherwell etc can all reform after administration, debt free. They'll have poorer playing squads but that's about all. I genuinely don't see what else they'll do, losing 6 clubs from the SPL will make an already lopsided league a complete farce.

He's quite a well known figure in supporters club circles, certainly around Glasgow at least. He's certainly a big bluenose although I didn't know he was a property expert. Andrew McCormack is (was?) Ally McCoist's agent, he's also an accountant.

Yes, happily.

double post

It's ironic that a nomadic, badly treated, poorly supported club are currently showing the rest of Scottish football how to behave. Clyde really are playing a blinder here. Doncaster is doing the bidding of the cowardly SPL clubs who want to save face with their supporters. Regan is simply duplicitous, I can't see how he can survive this, surely the entire SFL is now against him. Div 3 or nothing seems to be the only option now, I doubt the SFL clubs will react well to being bullied by the same clubs who looked to shaft them when the SPL was formed.

But that's not what they are doing though, is it? Many companies 'go bust' on Friday and open as almost identical companies on Monday with no recourse for creditors of the original company. In law they are different companies, they may have very similar names, employ the same people and do the same thing but they are legally different and no court will uphold a claim against them. Rangers 'newco' are not liable for any of the debts of the 'oldco' and Ticketus and particularly HMRC know this. That was one of the reasons it was so surprising they decided against the CVA. They can't stop any company paying money to Hearts etc if they choose too, the company you work for could decide to pay the 'oldco' debt to Hearts if they felt like it, HMRC can't then come knocking at your door and say 'hey, what about us?'.

Probably more need for Red Adair the way things are going.

Can people whose names are colours please get the fuck away from Rangers!! There is playing to the gallery and then there is that statement, bloody hell.

I was actually quite excited when Thomson took an interest in this way back. I foolishly believed a heavyweight journalist might help uncover a smoking gun, nail a few obviously guilty people and perhaps expose a few others. Boy was I wrong. This particular 'story' is perplexing. So it's news that Cambell Ogilvie is a Rangers fan, and that as a one time director he owned shares? Had he sold them to a stranger would that have meant he was no longer a Rangers supporter? Donald Findlay, again has made no secret at all of his Rangers leanings. He doesn't own Cowdenbeath, he's the Chairman. Whilst an important role it isn't an executive position, he isn't involved in the running of the club, he chairs the board meetings. Yeah, big conflict. I don't know the Airdrie bloke, I certainly haven't heard of Airdrie doing Rangers any favours lately. The Hamilton owner used to be on the board of Clyde, I doubt he grew up supporting either club, has he not been of benefit to Hamilton then? Livingston used to have Dominic Keane on their board, who did he support again and how did that all work out for Livi? Fucksake we were owned by an Ayr Utd fan for long enough! Anyway, good to hear Thomson is advocating clubs should only employ supporters of that club from now on!

Isn't it possible because Rangers 'oldco' and Rangers 'newco' are different legal entities and so creditors of the 'oldco' have no claim on the 'newco'. If the 'newco' agree to pay amounts of money to Hearts, St Etienne etc that just happen to be the same as the amounts the 'oldco' owed then that's their business. They could choose to pay anyone anywhere a sum of money and no one can stop them. Isn't that the case?

As I understand it they have nothing to vote on. Rangers haven't applied to join the SFL in any division yet.

Personally I doubt. Division 3 I'd say yes but not Div 1, SFL clubs seem pretty set against that.

Okay, thanks for clarifying. Ironically I think the 'sporting integrity' line is far more truthful coming from many of the SFL clubs. Unlike the SPL hypocrites many of the SFL clubs are ran well, living within their means and not reliant on other clubs for their survival. The SPL cut the Scottish Football League adrift when it set up, they really didn't care what happened to the smaller teams in Scotland then. I can see why a few of those smaller teams don't feel like letting Aberdeen, Dundee Utd etc off the hook now. If the SPL teams that need us to survive can't/won't face up to their own supporters and mismanagement then I don't blame the SFL clubs for not bailing them out.

Yes, I'd agree it has the air of political expediency about it. I still welcome it though.

Why? Aren't you sorry for all that's happened? I am. The whole thing is a clusterfuck with loads of people to blame, some connected to the club, many not. But we're at the centre of that cluster whether we like it or not. That's not just an apology to other clubs that's an apology to you and me too.

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding JohnnyK and AlexScott... but do you think the SFL clubs should accept us in the 1st Division or am I picking up the wrong end of the stick?

Judging by the accents of Doncaster and Regan I think it unlikely the SNP are controlling Scottish football.

To be fair as a one time director of Diageo, Turnbull Hutton would recognise corruption when he see's it, it's not like Diageo have ever lied too, threatened or bullied anyone! Despite that he's right, the game is clearly corrupt.

@Tannochsidebear, that's only going to happen if you believe any of that article is true. It's pure PR in my opinion, designed to plant seeds of doubt in other clubs, or conversely to ensure the supporters of those clubs rise up once again and ensure their clubs vote no if they were indeed wavering. I'm still not sure what our current owners grand design is and so which result will suit them best on this. There is no way the directors of the clubs that have already publicly stated they'll vote 'no' are going to change their mind now. What little credibility they have left will disappear entirely. As was raised in the Clyde statement don't be surprised to see an amnesty on clubs going into administration next season. Whatever the purpose of that article it is only muddying waters that are already quite clear; we aren't going to play in the SPL this coming season no matter what.

I have to say that piece does read just like a PR masterclass report. The day before the vote name three clubs that will go bust, rank up the tension and the pressure and offer an alternative. The only problem they have is the SPL clubs won't go for it, a U-turn at this stage will destroy them. Best case scenario currently is us to Div 3 with huge league reconstruction introduced next season that could see us make the top league sooner than the potential 3 seasons currently. The other alternative is we play no football at all next season and reapply to the SPL for summer. Don't discount that as a way for the SPL clubs to safeguard finance.

To be fair I don't think Clyde are suggesting that. They are saying it's not for them to punish Rangers, that's up to the SPL and the SFA. I happen to agree with their point about Rangers rebuilding the club and reputation by starting from Division 3, I accept not every Rangers fan agrees with me though. GovanAllan's point about the 'free pass' for future clubs is fair. Other than talk about the redistribution of TV money and maybe gate receipts I've not read much about any other form of corporate governance being put in place. We've known for a while that the likes of Aberdeen and Dundee Utd simply want to protect their place whilst damaging us as much as they can without actually losing any money.

At some point someone needs to step back and say enough. We're fucked, we can't be unfucked now, what's done is done. Forcing others to go down the same road we are won't help us now. It won't help anyone.

I thought they had a point on that though. It's not in anyone's interest that more clubs go to the wall, the sport needs reformed and as long as reform is taking place I could live with it. Frankly I wouldn't wish the last few months on anyone, well almost anyone.

“We are Rangers Super Rangers, No-one likes us, And it appears we may have failed to anticipate some of the long-term ramifications of this” the Scottish novelist, Christopher Brookmyre, tweeted that last week. You only get 140 characters on Twitter, he managed to make a pretty good point with 3 to spare. I’m a fan of Brookmyre, he’s a fan of St Mirren, someone has to be I suppose. I saw him at the 2009 Aye Write festival on the day St Mirren knocked Celtic out of the Scottish Cup, he was the only person in the room who seemed happier than me. If we’ve learned nothing else since mid February we’ve learned that an awful lot of people in Scottish football really don’t like Rangers. I’ve been taken aback by just how many and how much though. I obviously knew that a section of the Celtic support spend more time thinking about us than we do, and you don’t need the power of second sight to realise some of the Aberdeen support sport a rather large chip on their shoulders where we are concerned. Beyond that I’d assumed it to be your normal, healthy, run of the mill dislike of a bigger more successful club, same as you get in every other league. It seems that’s not the case and I’m more naïve than Snow White in an apple shop. I’ve been stunned as a succession of supporter’s trusts, club directors and associated talking-heads vent their ire at Rangers. Somehow they seem unable to distinguish between the various strands that go into making up a football club, this surprises me considering they have identical strands at their clubs. Yet I can’t remember hearing one other club in Scotland express any concern or empathy for the Rangers support who have been largely blameless in all this and indeed are surely the main victims, in a football sense at least. So this antipathy towards Rangers goes deeper and further back than last February. The excellent Rangers Standard ran an article recently by an academic who is also a Hearts fan. In it he tries to explain his dislike of Rangers. It was an interesting piece but having read it I did find myself thinking ‘is that it, is that all you’ve got against us?’. I had expected more, not paying for Lee Wallace and luring Andy Webster away seemed unsatisfactory reasons for a lot of the venom that has come our way from some quarters. I’ve seen the ‘Protestants only’ signing policy mentioned a lot recently. It’s well over a quarter of a century since that was in place, is it really still an issue for other clubs supporters? Some of our songbook has also been mentioned. Believe me the ‘Loyalist’ songs are a source of disagreement between Rangers supporters, they aren’t universally popular, at the same time they aren’t universally offensive either. Every summer Rangers messageboards contain long threads debating the merits of certain songs and their modern connotations. Are people really appalled by the dying vestiges of aspects of West of Scotland working class culture? I’m not convinced. The Orange Order are irrelevant to the lives of all but those involved in them. They have no political clout or public voice, the majority of the Rangers support have no connection with them whatsoever. I’m constantly drawn back to football reasons. David Murray was clearly a hugely unpopular figure with other clubs. He was arrogant, bullish and successful. He was a Tory, although I’d venture most of the boardrooms around the SPL have a few of them lurking. He is seen as being the driving force in pushing inequality in Scottish football. Being behind proposed breakaway leagues, mooted moves to England, Atlantic Leagues and so on. That seems to have annoyed a lot of people. I can see why now. It was arrogant, it was selfish and it was clearly all bluster. The SPL voting rights are another source of anger. Again I can see why. In our defence other clubs must have agreed to them. I find myself asking the question, why? Whatever the reasons, we could do with some friends just now. We could do with stepping back and trying to understand why we are so unpopular. There is a lot of anger in the Rangers support currently too. We’ve become increasingly marginalised and disenfranchised during the last 5 months. The kicks from others have been felt and will be remembered. That doesn’t help anyone. Someone has to stand up and say enough is enough. Football is supposed to be our escape from reality, it’s supposed to be fun and it isn’t just now, it feels like it won’t ever be again. At that stage you ask yourself what’s the point? We've rarely gone out of our way to make friends in the past, we're not ones for 'special relationships' unlike others. But we should have better relationships with our neighbours and competitors. Somewhere along the way we've lost touch with the other clubs in the league. For Rangers to prosper in the future we'll need to build bridges at every level, from boardroom to terrace. That seems unlikely currently but moving forward it'll be essential. So listening to St Mirren fans and the like is something we'll need to do. The upside of that is some of them are actually quite entertaining.

I wasn't on much over the weekend so I might have missed it but did anyone post the statement from Clyde? If not here it is: http://www.clydefc.co.uk/news/2012/06/30/4134/ "The Club has received a set of papers in advance of the SFL meeting on Tuesday. The essential intent behind those papers is to induce the SFL clubs to agree a proposal to allow a Newco to enter the SFL in the First Division in exchange for a range of structural changes to the current set up and some small financial inducements. Some of the proposed changes have merit in principle. The Board believe that any proposals for change should not be rushed, as these have been. They also have to be done by consensus and not through threat or inducement, again, as these have been. The papers include a proposal to allow a Newco to enter the First Division. This is contrary to the rules of the SFL and nothing within the papers justifies this proposal. As a club owned by its supporters and recovering from having been on the brink of extinction, the Board of Clyde Football Club recognise the damage done to the credibility of Rangers Football Club by its successive owners, and the subsequent impact on staff and supporters. These proposals do nothing to restore that credibility. It is not for us to become involved in punishment, that is a matter for the SPL and SFA. The SFL clubs are being asked to change their rules so that the SPL and SFA can apply sanctions that fit short term financial interests. It is not for us to tell any club what they should want for themselves, but to enter anywhere other than the Third Division risks Rangers Football Club being burdened with the legacy of commencing its rebuilding in a manner that they later look back on with regret. Rangers Football Club does not need to be handed a competitive advantage, they are more than capable of returning to the SPL via the Third Division on their own merit. Rebuilding from the bottom can restore the dignity stripped from the club by its former owners. The papers use emotive language to threaten a future of financial meltdown and they carry the implication of the destruction of the game should a Newco not be entered in the First Division. If things are as bad as indicated then Scottish Football is in a far worse state than is being acknowledged. In which case it is time to accept the bankrupt model needs fixed and not supported and perpetuated on the back of this proposal. The fact that other clubs might face similar financial distress because Rangers Football Club enter the Third Division is hardly a reason to compromise the integrity of the SFL and further compromise Rangers Football Club. Rather than attempting to prepare a soft landing before delivering sanctions, it would be better to contemplate more radical change that might actually underpin financial stability in the long term for clubs that balance their books. Perhaps an amnesty from sanctions for clubs that are forced to face insolvency procedures in the next 2 years as a result of the current turmoil, and an automatic entry to the Third Division for any club liquidated and reformed in similar circumstances. This would allow 2 years to properly restructure the Scottish Game for the benefit of all and undo the damage that has been created by the current structure which encourages club directors to trade integrity for cash, and then spend beyond their means, willingly risking the very existence of football clubs. If we could believe that the game could be less self interested long enough to resolve this, then this, and other far better ideas, might be worth contemplating. SPL clubs that have openly stated their opposition to a Newco being given immediate access to the SPL have taken the position based on their, and at times, their supporters' view of what is the right thing to do. However, the vote has still to be taken and proposals such as these are premature. If the SPL clubs vote as indicated on the basis of the increasingly discredited notion of sporting integrity, it would be questionable if the SFL clubs did otherwise. The reality is that we are faced with unique circumstances and it would be foolish to pretend otherwise. That probably means that compromise for some is inevitable, and perhaps even worthwhile for everyone in the long term. The solution however is not this hastily cobbled together proposal. The Board of this club sees no merit whatsoever in adopting this proposal." I like the humility of the Hamilton statement, but I find it hard to find much wrong with the Clyde statement either.