calscot

What about the third?

With all Barton's supposed pedigree and his high opinion of himself, I pretty much expected him to make those around him look good - as Davie Weir did for Wilson. That certainly didn't happen. Maybe he just underestimated the difficulty and needs to knuckle down, get fit and on form, while minimising his controversy, but he's already pretty much blown his reputation, and it won't be easy to recover it. Otherwise he's probably destined for an imminent career in media.

In the end, I'd rather not raise their importance and choose not to sing about them at all...

That's how you know it's meant to be offensive: they don't say it with a normal intonation, they always snarl it, like the way a neo-nazi says, "k*ke" or "n*****". It difficult to avoid Godwin's Law when it comes to them, as they really are acting like Nazis these days.

Maybe it would be more tactical to do the reverse adopt the term - have some NI protestants form a religious Ulster group called, the "Huns"... That way, "go home ya huns" and "hun scum" becomes a racial and sectarian slur...

You have to put his twittering in the context of probably having more followers than the whole of the Scottish sport media outlets put together - he has a lot of responsibility there, and he didn't get that following by not being sensationalist. He came with a lot of self promotion and hype, so I think we maybe expected someone who wrestles hold of a game, and is of a shade of the quality of the likes of Barry or even Ian Ferguson. I think Terry Hurlock actually made more of an impression. We've had plenty of other players who have played that position and looked like quality. I think if he came as a lesser known EP journeyman, a model professional, at 29 years old, who followed the party line media wise, and didn't get that suspension, then we'd be thinking he maybe needs more time and match fitness... I don't think anyone thinks that Halliday is brilliant, and it's been suggested we needed someone of a higher standard with better defensive qualities, and Haliday could move into a more attacking position - Barton was supposed to bring that (and Rossiter too). Agree with that, but we also don't need expensive passengers, so we have to hope that Barton's ego doesn't turn him into one...

I think that's consistent with not having a go. To me it's all very valid viewpoints and any criticism has a lot of facts to back it up. Some fans didn't want him because of his well documented bust ups and controversial media outpourings - combined with his age and burden of wages, and the fact he wasn't exactly a top class international player at the peak of his career; I don't think there are many who didn't think it was somewhat of a gamble. Some were optimistic about the bet paying out, some were pessimistic. Fair enough, it's all about opinions from that point. Since then the reality has been that we haven't played well, he hasn't done much that makes people think he's a first choice player who enhances the team (never mind someone who is supposed to lift us up a level), and when you start with the bust up with the manager, his subsequent twitter and media ramblings have put him in quite a bad light in many people's eyes, which is highly exacerbated by his hubris on twitter and in the media when he signed. So now, even a lot of the optimists are writing him off as a lost bet, and the pessimists are most likely feeling quite vindicated in their initial viewpoint. To me it seems that rather than being scapegoated or harshly judged, the reality is that people justifiably don't see him as much of an asset any more. I think most would be very happy if he worked his way back into the team and became the player of the month, taking the team to a higher level. However, I don't think there are many who are optimistic about that, and are happy to keep playing the likes of Halliday or Rossiter instead - until they look like they are playing badly enough to want to try something else. I think he's worked his own passage from marquee signing to squad player, or even the transfer list, in a very, very short time - for both fans and management.

Yeah, plush

PS I don't think people are having a go at him, just generally not impressed with his attitude.

I think the difference with Barton than pretty much any other player, is his suspension by the club...

As he's not yet moved on, I think he'll be back IF he shows a bit more contrition (or at least a tiny bit of humility), and and shows more respect to the manager and the rest of the team. He'll also have to get fit, and show some form in training. I think MW has put him in his place and shown him he's not as big or important as he thought... I can see him getting on the bench to start, as it would be a slap in the face to the other players to get straight back in the team, unless there are injury reasons.

BTW Did anyone think Barton had a good game against Celtic? I don't rate Brown very highly but he seemed far better to me, and to cap it off Barton looked a bit foolish in the drop ball situation against him. Maybe it wasn't so bad, but framed in his boastfulness, it looked much more stark. However, I can' t think of anyone who showed much to admire in that game, including the managers.

Who is scapegoating Barton? Or have you done some revisionism on my post...? I said we're having a dodgy time in a crucial season and he has already *proven* to be a bit destabilising and in fact sent away for about a month by the manager - so I questioned whether he is worth the risk of bringing him back at this time. His performances have certainly not been good enough to have sorely missed them, no matter your opinion on them - and is makes it worse that he has run his mouth off quite a bit, to the effect of something like he's the best player in Scotland and a class above Brown. There is no scapegoating, the guy has factually caused his own problems due to his own flaws in character and simultaneously hasn't done much to make our start to the season successful, or shown us much at all that makes us want him back in a hurry. Maybe someone clairvoyant can tell us how great he's going to be, but otherwise we can only make judgements on what we see. So I don't see how anyone can think I'm blaming him, although do think he's done far less than most to help the start to the season, not least by the extreme issue of getting suspended by the club. All I've said is that he's behaved, talked and played his way out of the team, and in my opinion he's not an compelling option at the moment. I can't see the relevance of his positioning against Celtic, especially as we'd pretty much lost at that point, I was a bit despondent and so following the intricacies of the game less closely, and the Sky internet feed was acting up quite often like time lapse photography - probably due to underestimating the online demand for simultaneous Glasgow and Manchester derbies and the servers not coping.

I think we're having a worrying season and a quick analysis of he potential benefit to potential cost, and he's an easy one to forget about. His performances have not lived up to his own hype, and he came off second best to Brown, whom he said wasn't in his class, in a complete humiliation. We have also seen what can happen when the dressing room is not happy, and so he comes across as a bit of a liability we can't afford. Halliday has looked a better bet when switching to a similar role, and he's more of a long term investment - as is Rossiter. There's also the impression that Warburton maybe felt had to play him to justify his wage and profile, and now he doesn't have that problem.

Maybe our 60 to 20 year olds just aren't good enough (due to Sinclair etc) or something, but while I don't like chucking in loads of kids for the sake of it, I prefer it when we give a couple of academy graduates a fair run in the team each season. If nothing else it gives all them hope and a reason to work at their game with the right amount of dedication. But that's just not happening.

A bit of venting and allowing yourself to vocalise your frustrations is probably a therapeutic part of the game.

I think I'm of a generation of Rangers fans that got used to sitting - my first game was when they had built the Copland and Broomloan stands, and the Govan stand was just a load of iron work. I still think there is something about the crowd rising as one at a goal or near chance, and standing to clap the players on and off. I also went to Hampden and Rugby Park a fair few times when it was terracing and hated the really poor view - especially when your head was at pitch level (!), or as a kid had adults in the way, and as an adult having taller adults in the way. I now much prefer to sit, and even better when the seats are cushioned... so maybe getting soft... but don't see why you can't be comfortable for most of the time when watching a game. I do like to stand in a pub which is something that is less and less popular - that's more to do with being sociable and mingling. I also prefer to stand when watching a live band.

I think the point is that if you predictably do the same thing all the time then the opposition can counter it, but mix it up a bit and they have to cover more options. I always think of the badminton serve in this where the short serve is preferred as it makes the opponent play up and therefore defensively - but if you never play a long serve the opponent comes closer and attacks your short serve. The odd, random long serve keeps him from coming too close - but you also use it to win a point if you notice he is too close. He'll back off, or you just do it again. The last part is obvious but where we look really naive. If a team are pressing, then punish them with a long ball, and leave a lot of their players in your half, while you attack their's. Keep doing that and they won't be pressing for long - and you have space to play your preferred way. The worse tactic I ever saw was Burley for Scotland where we didn't have an out player - the opposition just pressed as far forwards as they like as we were actually unable to use the long ball clear, never mind predictable. They even brought the keeper up the park somewhat to collect any long balls out of defence with no pressure. That's just one simplistic aspect, but the point is that no matter what you do in the game, you need to have several options and mix them up to keep them guessing, and also using any preemptive tactics against them. As a defender, I'm happy when a guy who likes to dribble has a much preferred side to go to, or usually tries the same thing, it makes me look good... The guys that can embarrass me are the ones who are not only really hard to predict (in a skillful way) using lots of options, but they are also good at disguising it so you think they are going to do something they are not - you really have to stand off them a bit, watch them carefully and be judicious in the timing of your tackle ie waiting till they show too much of the ball or make a mistake. So a lot of people think we should have a more expansive repertoire including skillful, occasional use of the long ball - nobody is advocating just lumping it up the park, so I think it's pointless to argue against that.

Fighting in some way is always going to be in sports metaphors...

Maybe it's a personal thing, but I've always seen the likes of football as not something that is entertaining per se - as well as most other sports, the magic comes from the whole gamut of vicarious emotions from willing the team or player to do well and win, to willing them to hold up against adversity and not capitulate to the opposition. Maybe kids of today are getting "educated" about entertainment and missing the real experience. I remember my first game was not "entertaining" at all, it was against Aberdeen and we scored early and I actually spent a lot of the rest of the game wanting it to end so we would win. I was willing the ball away from our goal, feeling the nerves that they might score and having a "tummy jump" if they came close and you didn't quite know if it went in for a second. And then getting excited when we were on the attack, and loving it when we had a decent chance, as well as the elation when you thought we had scored and the deflation when you realised it wasn't to be, or the anger and frustration when it went in but was called off-side. I think it was a dull game football wise in my memory, but incredibly exciting. It was a long time ago, and I do remember far too many pass backs to the keeper that was pretty tedious - I was so glad when they banned it. I did love the entertainment when the likes of Davie Cooper got the ball and did his trickery - if he was in the mood, and Willie Johnston wasn't bad either - you'd see both quite well as they kept swapping sides. Bobby Russel was also an entertaining player. But the point is that the experience was less about appreciating good football and enjoying all the excitement of two teams trying to beat each other and passionately wanting only one of them to do well. That's what turns you into a supporter and why the "neutral" games of the best teams in Europe are often are often uninteresting for many. I think that's what also gets you into playing the sport as you want to emulate your heroes and get have all the feelings but first hand for yourself, rather than vicariously.

"No surrender" is a sentiment that applies well to a football match - although I'd rather change the words to defend the Ibrox goals or walls or something. I'd also change the lyrics so that they make some actual sense - can anyone explain this to me: The cry was no surrender, surrender or you'll die...? Maybe it means - we're not going to surrender, but you better surrender or we will kill you... Or is it two sides talking to each other? Don't understand that one either and have no interest in it. I think our supporters are one of the most anachronistic and least imaginative around. I would prefer us to develop a bit more self awareness and sense of humour.

I would guess compared to OO members we have an even larger following who vote SNP and support the break up of the union, have we inherited a link there? How many Catholic supporters do we have? We've had plenty of players, so do we have a link there? I would also guess probably have a lot more atheists (or people who think they are agnostics, or who don't practice anything, or even who just don't have a clue about organised religions) than practicing theists so isn't that our heritage? Maybe our heritage is flat caps, suits and smoking...

Funny thing is that Sunderland are kind of similar in results to size of support and wealth ratio... Middlesburgh also have underperformed in that sense. Is it a North East England thing (Ashley apart)?

I think the SFA have shown that their articles allow them to do what they think up at the time - even if it's not even legal...

Love Thunderstruck and like playing it on the guitar - badly, but strangely, I don't think I know the words to sing along, apart from "Thunder". It's great guitar and drums, but it's not really a sing-a-long. In fact, there's not many AC~DC songs that are...