calscot

I suppose history has shown us another negative aspect. When Walter's teams are under pressure they collapse - it happened last season and it happened during the 10IAR season.

I think one thing you have to give Walter, is that since he has come back, he's won more points in the league than Celtic, won more games against them as well as winning all the cups he's been in at their expense. Domestically he's been a good bit better than them. So there is no reason to believe he can't continue to beat this season - except perhaps that the team currently looks like a shambles...

Reading some posts on here there seems a strange attitude towards SDM where people think he's more interested in locking down the finances than any success on the pitch. The ironic thing is that the biggest thing SDM has been guilty of is OVERSPENDING for success... I'm no Murray fan but it's just ridiculous to suggest he wants Rangers to fail and is somehow happier when money comes into the club than the winning of trophies or European success. Some seem to be arguing he's happy we're out of Europe so he can sell Cuellar... The mostly glaringly stupid part of this strange concept is that success brings money into the club. We gained far more money with our run in Europe last season than the sale of any players. People say Murray is reluctant to spend but he's been doing so at a rate of about 20% of turnover - that's massive. But when you get down to it, it seems to me that it's obvious that SDM wants Rangers to be a success on the field for many, many reasons. He probably craves it far more than most supporters as it's far more personal for him. Even if you don't think he's a supporter, any success reflects favourably on him and massages his ego. It makes him look successful himself and gets him much respect in the business world. Flops like Tuesday, make him look bad. If he's merely trying to sell the club for as much money as he can get, then success on the pitch helps enormously. Not only is a successful club more attractive to buyers, the money coming in makes the books look a hell of a lot better. Successful clubs are less likely to hemorrhage money, as the fans are falling over themselves to buy tickets as are TV companies and advertisers. The two things he doesn't want is a massive debt or to fund it out of his own pocket (just like the fans) as he's already had to put 50M of his own money up. I think that was more than enough for him and he doesn't want to go down that road again - especially when the fans are unlikely to help. If we won't go that extra mile with our own money then you can't expect him to put MILLIONS of pounds in. It's also amazing how many people assume that SDM is "syphoning off" money and talking about a "missing �£30M". This just seems pure ignorance as the accounts are properly audited and published every year, as per stock exchange rules. SDM might make money out of Rangers by subcontracting his companies but he doesn't steal it or line his pockets with money from Rangers accounts. The man doesn't even take a wage, while most Chairmen take a six or seven figure sum. So you may not like SDM in the slightest and there are times when he looks like he has his own agenda and pulls the wool over our eyes, but to hold the premise that he doesn't want Rangers to be successful is just laughable.

While I think failure reaps it's own rewards, so does success and sacking a manager a couple of months after getting to the UEFA cup final due to being out of the competition at the first hurdle really doesn't make sense. What it Walter's reward for his success? I think we should take the mean which works out at two average seasons in Europe. Another way of looking at it, I think the final got him a get out of jail free card and he's just used it. He now needs to be judged on the league as he's achieved the required haul of cups for two seasons already. So for Europe and the cups he's at 50% - just passable, but HAS to win the league to achieve 50% there. So basically he's wiped out all his currency earned from last season in one fell swoop. Had he won the league he'd still be largely in credit. If he is out of contention at any point this season, he should go. If he wins it, he'll have just achieved his 50% pass mark and so where we go from there depends on how his tenure is assessed qualitatively.

It's up there with Victoria Zhizkov.

I would take Michael Laudrup with Brian as assistant.

I think the trouble with Miller is that every report will describe him as having worked hard, made himself three or four chances - and missed them all. It seems the story of his career.

I think Walter will get the season to try and win back the league, and if history is anything to go by he should be able to do it. Rangers went straight out of Europe to Victoria Zhizkov in 2002 and we went on to win the league. Celtic went straight out to Art Media Bratislava in 2005 and won the league. Another parallel is uncanny where both Rangers and Celtic got to the UEFA cup final and both lost the league on the last day of the season. It seems it's easier to win the league when you're not in Europe therefore Smith has absolutely no excuse - and so if he fails he should leave. The team looks dire at the moment, although it has to be remembered that we haven't even started the domestic season. I think that's a contribution and seems madness to me that we don't start our league before the CL qualifiers - especially when so much is at stake for our second top team and Scotland in general. I don't know how Walter could have let things get so bad so quickly when surely he should have been BUILDING on the foundation of a decent and almost great season. It looked like we just need a bit more creativity in the middle and cutting edge up front to be a pretty decent side. But instead of adding those ingredients, we seem to have the lost the defensive and organisational qualities we already had as well as that winning mentality. I think some of the factors are the combined anticlimax hangover from last sesaon, losing two of our most influencial players, lack of match fitness and practice, and the general fear factor that made us go out thinking about the consequences of defeat rather than that of a win. The winning mentality was just not there. It's almost like we need to start all over again instead of enhancing what we have. Every year we seem to have to rebuild and this time I thought we had something pretty good to build on. However, one of our biggest assets was heart, and that seems to have disappeared completely.

Look "pal" I don't need to know you, I just need to read what you said. Let me refer you to your earlier quote: You don't think that changing the "we" to "they" and it could have easily come from a Tim? I've argued many times with Tims on the Scotsman, and that's EXACTLY the kind of stuff they write. I didn't say you are a Tim but after arguing with them it's a bit crap to have to do it with someone who says he supports my club. If what you said was true, then I could understand it, but from where I was sitting, we gubbed team after team on the way to the final. Was Mohamid Ali getting "hammered" when he was ropadoping? Italian teams have played that kind of football for years and never had the same kind of slagging. Crap teams don't get to the final, but if they do, then how the hell do you measure your success? Was PLG really a great manager but he lost to teams that we hammered? Was he a far bigger success but some of us just can't see it? Since you've been a season ticket holder for five years, it's strange you think that way as we've won very little before last season in that time, bar Celtic handing us the title on the last day and the football has been consistently dire all the way. Last season MUST have been the best you've seen at Ibrox bar losing the league in the last few games. I haven't seen as strong a Rangers for about 7 years. Last season in Europe may not have been the prettiest but it was definitely effective and it sure beats getting gubbed by Victoria Zhizkov or Gothenburg etc. If we have to play crap football to win then I'll take that over playing good football and losing - something we did under WS last tenure. The ideal is playing great AND winning, but if it was that easy everyone would be doing it and therefore nobody. I for one enjoyed our European run immensely - but then, I love it when Rangers win.

Completely agree. He played really well at the start of the season, taking great long distance pot-shots at goal, winning tons of headers and generally giving the opposition defences a very hard time. Since the new year, he's just not been the same player and has gone from quality to less than mediocrity. Hopefully he can recapture his previous form.

Completely agree. He played really well at the start of the season, taking great long distance pot-shots at goal, winning tons of headers and generally giving the opposition defences a very hard time. Since the new year, he's just not been the same player and has gone from quality to less than mediocrity. Hopefully he can recapture his previous form.

lol, really got to laugh at the "unsavoury language" jibe. Are you Mary Whitehouse perchance? Again, I apologise at the use of that heinous word, "tainted"... Are you so sensitive you can't take a bit of criticism when all you do is come to have a go at a manager you will never allow yourself to see any good in? Sorry but when people come on here just to vent an anti-Rangers agenda, I'm probably going to comment. It's a Rangers site after all.

If that's true, how come he didn't play more for Clyde? Why doesn't he have another season there?

Of course it was a fluke, Walter took over a team in dire straights and was competing with clubs who have a greater budget than us and better local talent. What he did though was play hard-nosed football that took advantage of other teams naivety - yet people think that was disgraceful? You would rather we were the naive ones who went out on our arses at the first attempt? Were Mohamed Ali's "Ropadope" tactics disgraceful or genius? You must have been watching different games from me, the only game we got hammered was Lyon at home - because we abandoned our defensive tactics and went for it. You know you must have some great Tim friends, I'm sure you sing from the exact same hymn book. I've never met so many bears who want to belittle our achievements, and then dress it up as "reality". Perhaps it's because the Tims didn't slag off their own team for getting there like we do, despite them playing similar football. They got slated by Barcelona for "Anti-football" but their fans didn't join in so much to make stick so well. The money is more than we can afford but unfortunately it's still pretty much peanuts. Can't see us overstocked in defence and it's pretty obvious we'll try to offload a couple of stikers. Your guess may be Davis only but did you guess we'd buy three strikers or guess about Bougherra? I doubt it. I'll bet your guesses have been pretty poor this summer. I think that's a bit of a stretch. Barry is an important player for Rangers whether you like him or not. I think it's evident that we're missing some of his ability in midfield even though many of us would like someone better. But can you come up with a better replacement for him that we can afford? I doubt it. The money is there so depends what you mean by issue. We can't spend more than we earn every year which is something most fans just don't seem to be able to wake up to. Our budget is decent but pretty low in compared with the top 4 leagues in Europe. Top Premiership players play there for a reason - no-one else can afford them. The fifth richest league in Europe is the Championship and so we will even struggle to compete in that market. I can't see how the scouting network is so bad when I can't think of a single team unearthing more bargains that we are. How come all these great scouts missed Cuellar when ours seen that it was screamingly obvious how good he was? Just who are all these players we are missing? People have mentioned loads of players on here and most of them are either no better than what we have, are shite, are too expensive or wouldn't come anyway. The rest are probably just not on Smith's radar - you can't expect him to go and buy every player you like. That's a point but he can't allow the fans to dictate who we buy and it's got to be said that the biggest problem was his Celtic past rather than his ability no matter how much it was dressed up. It could come back to haunt him or maybe the fans will end up looking like they know nothing about football. It's happened plenty of times before. I don't think that Miller is an inspired signing but he's as good, if not better than a lot of strikers we've had over the years. Buffel was rubbish for Rangers, get over it. He went for nowt because he was worthless. If that's the best you can come up with then it seems you've got no real point apart from a subjective difference of opinion with Smith on you favourite players. I think you'll find a lot of bears disagree with you there. Paying �£400k for a player unwanted by three managers for just one season is just plain silly. Again you totally water down any point - you want Rangers to piss away an extra MILLION pounds on a player who clearly isn't worth it right now. Sorry but you're starting to make the management look like they are the epitome of common sense. I think that is the difference, they are putting together a real football team with real money and real consequences. It's not some fantasy football with monopoly money, where in their own world they always get it right. Dramatic changes like squandering money on players who don't contribute anything to the team and giving any club what they want for a mediocre player even though they are not worth it? How is that going to help?

I didn't think I was being all that strong and definitely not hot under the collar, but if you feel I overstepped the mark then I apologise. Maybe I should have chosen my words more carefully. You've been doing a lot of anti-Smith ranting on here which to me hasn't made much sense. But it now looks to me like you just don't like Smith and so you have it in for him and will slag him off no matter what he does. When you will only see things so immovably one way, then how will your arguments ever be seen to be fair? That is what I meant by "tainted". This may be a place for ranting but it gets very tiresome when a personal agenda is constantly vented. I would rather have more open minded discussion, which is what I personally thought the site is for. BTW I'm not particularly pro-Smith (which you obviously haven't surmised) and I didn't think he was the best man for the job when he came. But to me, he's done a pretty good job in the circumstances and I don't think anyone deserves to be sacked or vilified when they have performed reasonably well. I think this is his make or break season but until the team are consistently punching well below their weight, I think he deserves a chance rather than constant sniping. I will judge Walter on his results, and so far, overall, they have not been bad especially considering the mess we were in beforehand. If he fails badly this season and shows he can't take the team forward then I too, will also want him to go.

PS I watched the second half of the first Kaunas game and it wasn't actually that bad a performance. We dominated and created quite a few chances. However, the main problem seemed to be that we didn't quite have the sharpness and cohesion necessary to get the ball in the net, coupled with some good/lucky defending and goalkeeping. Too many times promising attacks broke down because the final ball wasn't quite good enough or a player quick enough to take advantage. I don't know if a new midfielder would have changed that pattern.

I think most of us presumed that we had a good enough squad to beat Kaunas and it does makes some sense to try and get the players you really want rather than panic buy - which will not guarantee you a better performance in any way. It may backfire but it was obviously a calculated risk. Whether it was right to take it will be determined by tomorrow's result.

PS I think that our team are definitely not performing at the level they should be, and Walter Smith has also acknowledged that. Whether he can do something about it is another issue.

I think we have two or three "excuses" 1. We played crap without what could be our two first choice CB's and central midfielder. 2. Like people have said and Walter knows, we're short of one or two new midfielders. 3. We got beat by a �£200M+ team who won the CL a couple of seasons ago. If we're on form and we're off form, we going to get stuffed. If we were thrashed by a team that could be considered our peer then I'd understand more, but it's the harsh reality of today that a club like Liverpool are now way above us in spending ability and wages. They are the fourth biggest club in the richest league in the world. I think there are too many ostriches with heads in the sand about the current financial differential between us and top Prem teams.

Totally agree with you. I support Rangers as a football club, not as a religious or political organisation and certainly not as an organisation that breeds hatred towards people with certain religious or political beliefs. I think the REAL traditional values of Rangers outside sporting excellence are those of Bill Struth and I doubt he'd approve of any of the supporters who call themselves, "traditional".

Personally, I can't see what we could do in the likes of Denmark and the Netherlands which would attract their best young players away from teams in their own country, who seem to have had a pretty good record of developing players for many years. We're not exactly of the stature of Man U or Barcelona - so I really can't see how we could succeed. At best we'd pick up all the players that no local team wants. I think we'd be best to concentrate on developing local talent in Scotland where we should easily be first choice for at least 33% of the kids. However, I think the onus is more on the Scottish Parliament and the SFA to dramatically increase the amount of proper coaching in our schools as well as actually providing places for kids to actually play. As far as I can see, they seem to be building on pitches everywhere.

OK, we now know where your coming from. Walter can obviously do nothing right in your eyes... Anything you say about him from now on is obviously tainted by that agenda.

Again, I think it's best to wait till the transfer window closes. Fans are being highly presumptions and incredibly naive about our transfer dealings. We are not privy to the ongoing negotiations and search for players - and neither are the press which was only last week shown in dramatic fashion with the signing of a defender "out of the blue." Walter may have tried and been unable to progress the signings of quite a few players for all we know, and we do actually know about the protracted attempt to sign Davis, and when we're offering �£3M, it's obvious that it has to be properly concluded one way or another before we can approach an alternative or even know how much we have to spend. Some fans seem to think that buying players is like shopping at Argos...

I really don't see how 9IAR factors in, and I don't think many see SDM or WS as above reproach. You only have to look at Walter's last year and a half with a bit of objectivity to see that his criticism is disproportionate. In fact I find it strange that you seem to think that the defenders of Walter are somehow "less thoughtful" and using more preconceptions than his critics. I would say it's the other way around. It seems to me that those who won't forgive Walter for failing to deliver 10 in a row or for not delivering more European success, think that he is beyond redemption and beyond praise - or even a fair crack at the whip. It's ironic that his detractors are in fact using his previous tenure as the stick to beat him with. I think he should be judged on his last one and a half season's, and looked at objectively, I can't see where the criticism is due. His only objectively measurable "failure" was to lose the league in the last week when his team were forced to play so many important games in such a short time. If he had won the league, his record would have been impeccable. I am presuming most people defending Walter are using those metrics to judge him. Any loyalty to him is not blind and people will be quick to change their minds if he has a fiasco of a season. To me, a highly experienced and qualified manager is only worthy of the type of fans criticism that Walter is getting when they have failed badly - like Eck and Le Guen - and also Advocaat for his last two seasons. Since Walter's return he has gained 3pts more in the league than his rivals and won all the domestic cups he has entered. Add to that a decent showing the CL and a great UEFA run to the final and it's hard to see why he's currently the most criticised manager in Scotland. To me all the criticism is pure subjective and also a bit early. People say he hasn't signed a midfielder but surely the "truth" is that he hasn't signed a midfielder "yet"? It's like accusing someone of being late, a few hours before they have to be somewhere.

The complaints about tickets is never ending - it sounds like we need a complete overhaul of he ticketing system including a new, "real" ticket office. Someone needs to come in with a big dose of common sense instead of just dreaming up controversial schemes to make money out of the other SPL clubs.