Frankie

Good points there... The RangersTV.tv project is a decent idea so perhaps this could be extended to allow supporters the chance to use it to our advantage.

As usual the hypocrisy is tedious... Regarding the penalty incidents, the first one looked a stone-waller to me and I'm still not convinced the keeper touched the ball despite the various replays. No idea why the 'keeper wasn't sent off though... The second one was rather soft but if you impede a player in the box then the chances are the officials will give a foul. As such, when Dillon barged Boyd, he was always going to go to ground. I'm sure Gus MacPherson was happy with the decision. I was more concerned about Miller's disallowed offside 'goal' which looked absolutely fine to me. No matter, if it gives the tin-foil tims more to get excited about, then we can keep laughing which is fine by me.

Have missed a few of these recently so apologies... http://www.gersnetonline.co.uk/2010/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=230:rangers-3--3-dundee-utd-player-ratings-and-mom-poll&catid=35:analysis&Itemid=67 :sd: for me in what was a below average term performance yesterday.

I've always said it wouldn't surprise me if Murray remained an important part of Rangers after he sold the club. In some ways, I'd be happy with that - in others only a complete divorce may translate to a more able future.

What interested me most over the weekend was the fact SDM is now apparently back with his fianc�© after they split last year.... That may change his outlook somewhat I'm told....

Everything depends on the purchase price and just who gains from it Lloyds alone or Lloyds and MIH. I can't see any businessman spending all his money to buy something and not leaving enough to actually fund it afterwards. For all his faults, I also can't see SDM selling to such a person either.

We should have won the game but I thought we were playing fine until the 2nd Utd goal which was a freak occurrence. I don't think anyone would deny drawing the game is unacceptable from such a position but those defending the situation are just pointing to the law of averages whereupon we were always going to 'drop points' along the line. Better done now than any other time and hopefully the kick up the backside some players and fans needed.

I respectfully suggest you take the intricacies of the VB forum registration process to pm....

Will make my decision at the end of the season.... Weir, Davis, McCulloch, Miller and Boyd all in contention as it stands.

Much more of an Frankenstein's monster heid than a monkey's! Not sure if that means I'm further forward Darwin-wise or not?

While a post, a challenge, a project or a protest may not influence the club's direction in a complete sense, I think it is naive to suggest the club don't not only take notice of opinion online but often act on it. Not to the degree some will suggest - and the club are much more clever in how they manipulate the situation - but online forums do have their place in the food chain.

Sorry to cherry pick your post Danny but I'd rather we didn't concentrate on such stuff and kept the thread constructive as indicated in my initial musings. I don't think it is fair to generalise in such a way as I know good people in every group I've worked with. There is no doubt there are also failings in some/all of the groups that may be causing problems as opposed to solving them but I doubt any of us could could comment objectively in that regard because of the experiences we may have had. By all means discuss these failings but lets avoid the kind of needless (and often inaccurate) personal stuff we read elsewhere that often spoil debates that should be useful ones. I think when it comes to folk posting personal allegations, it detracts hugely from the often valid point being made and gives excuses to people not to take part in such debates. I won't allow that to happen here.

Thanks for taking the time to make that constructive contribution and also thanks for kind words about the site - your $5 is in the air mail... To take your points in order: 1. Paying people for their contribution is an interesting idea as it would take the apathy aspect out the equation for a lot of people immediately. Unfortunately, dangling such carrots may only result in people being more competitive with each other - as opposed to working together. We've all seen what happened with the founding of the Assembly or the recent offer of a seat on the board by SDM. I think if we're honest, the calibre of people we want to be involved as the pinnacle of supporters reps will have the kind of background that will negate financial reward. It shouldn't be the rule, but I'd have thought it better that experts - proven people with dedicated backgrounds - would be the most credible for taking our ideas to the big table. Of course, there should always be room for those of us (myself included as an example) without the big bucks , without the business record and without the honours degree to influence proceedings but with the time to put in that the others may not have. Generally though we need to find experts right across the spectrum and I doubt we'd have the budget to actually pay them per se - so the task will and should remain a voluntary one. 2. 'We Are the People' is a great bit of branding for the club or any potential investor to build around. We have a huge fanbase and yet we do little to accommodate it in terms of club support and welcome. Look at NARSA at how to organise annual events which attract thousands. We should be building the same community and spirit here in Scotland but instead we have three main organisations - the oldest of which is dying before our very eyes - and various online groups often trying to outdo each other instead of working together . We're all guilty of allowing this division/apathy to happen. The divorce between the fans and club is bad enough but to have the very support fractured is even worse! 3. Your last suggestion of an improved, singular organisation is quite correct. All of the 3 main organisations have their positives and their foibles. It is no disgrace to admit problems or failure. Criticism has to be accepted and challenges acted upon instead of huffs deepened and splits broadened. Just because people have moan and groan sometimes doesn't mean you withdraw into your shell. Take it on the chin and come out fighting. We've seen the false dawns from each organisation - time for them to really show some leadership and find a solution interested fans want. I'm still waiting on further contributions to this thread. I know all organisations are aware of it. Why not get involved?

Hi mate, Welcome to Gersnet! As others have said, I don't think there is any anti-FF sentiment on here whatsoever. Most use that forum and most will agree it is arguably still the most influential one out in the community. Similarly, I don't think there is all that much anti-Gersnet sentiment on FF - most posters there probably don't even know of our small (but finely formed community). Not sure, if you have us confused with RM where there is a bit more conflict between there and FF? However, you're certainly right in that the lack of unity between the support (online or offline) is disappointing to say the least. The RST are far from perfect and the Duffy incident showed that to be the case. However, this situation is an unique one for us all so difficult to judge the intentions/credibility of anyone with any real confidence without ensuring the whole picture is available. As it stands I don't think it is. That's why we can only hope we find a bit of improvement as this situation is not just vital for the club but a chance of genuine representative improvement for the support.

Depends on who is really interested in him, at what price and what replacements we have lined up... For continuity reasons I'd rather keep him but given his regular international breaks and injury issues, I'd be happy to sell for around �£7million.

Hugh Keevins had a right go at him in the Record... Tim on tim arguments are good fun!

Good man Stewarty - I'll also stick you down for next month...

Tend to agree with Mr Cannonball here.... Smith has decent funds during his 2nd spell - even if they've perhaps come in bulk as opposed to spread out over his tenure. the jury is still out on a few of these signings but for the market we shop in, inconsistency and self-doubt is perhaps to be expected.

Yeah, agree your conclusion mate... Having heard the same words from Carlos Cuellar almost 2 years ago, I won't be buying my season 2010/11 Bougherra Rangers merchandise just yet...

Thanks guys!

I didn't say it would be easy... All fan organisations have had experience of organising (or attending) events in recent years in a variety of different ways - AGMs, dinners, Fan Forums, conferences etc etc. No reason why these formats couldn't be combined to produce a formal structure at a suitable venue. A combination of workshops and speeches with a formal, minuted Q&A session would be interesting. Follow that with an informal buffet in a Rangers boozer and a few barriers may be removed. Here is a very basic outline agenda, but imagine something like this at Ibrox Stadium (or say Partick Burgh Halls/Wee Rangers Club) for every bear to attend - funded by the club/Assembly. 9-9.30am - Welcome and Introduction 9.30-10am - Speech from Supporters Direct Chairman 10-10.30am - Speech from Club Representative (ideally Martin Bain) 10.30-10.45am - Coffee 10.45 - 12noon - Submissions from each of the Fan Organisations 12noon-12.30pm - Buffet Lunch 12.30-2pm - Separate rooms/workshops for each Organisation for attendee to visit, find out information and join 2-3pm - Main minuted Q&A Session 3pm - ???? - Informal reception in the WRC I'm not sure how well this would work, how much it would cost, how many would attend or what results could be taken forward but if you want to represent people you can't be more open and more constructive than that.

My own personal suggestion would be a public debate on representation itself - (not the club's future, not the media or other issues) but an open meeting on a suitable date for everyone to attend specifically concentrating on finding common ground... If people are serious about transparency and improvement then have the heads of the organisations involved and invite everyone else along for their thoughts. The Assembly Fan Forum and RST GersPride events worked reasonably well so something along those lines but tailored to discuss constructively what can be achieved as fans - with a process to ensure the ideas are taken forward in a genuine sense. Let's get everyone in the same room and talking again. Far too many sensible, intelligent people around not to utilise during a period where the club's future is in the balance. The fact we'd be doing this from a position of relative strength (touch wood) is also a huge bonus in terms of keeping everything positive.

Here are a few ideas for discussion - I may turn this into a constructive article next week for discussion out with here but this may be the best place initially to avoid the usual crap from some. I think three main areas can be debated. Communication The omnipresent bug bear for many fans organisations, improvement has been oft promised but rarely delivered over the years for a variety of reasons - some valid, some no more than excuses (I hold myself partly responsible unfortunately). The Assembly has put together a new website which has been reasonable so far but certainly under used and under promoted. Aesthetically average and poor forum software/contributors means people have little encouragement for regular visits. I know they are working on improving this though - as well as their email communication - so hopefully that will happen asap. They also had a Fans Forum at Ibrox last November - promising more at that. Unfortunately these have not happened - probably because of the uncertainty surrounding the club. Are more a good idea generally? The Association have also worked on stuff behind the scenes but they seem to be an organisation struggling to expand beyond the decreasing influence they have had in recent times. How can they address this? Should they accept they are no longer important? The Trust retain the largest media voice and few people will contest David Edgar et al do a fine job in that regard. However, beyond that they still have problems reaching out to the community - especially the offline one - so I'd be interested to hear if they intend matching the Assembly with their own forum. I understand that will take investment (financial and time wise) to operate but it may prove the best way of removing some of the inter-site problems we've seen develop over the last couple of years. What other plans do they have for increasing awareness? Innovation Active media work, liaison with RSCs/NARSA/ORSA etc, GerSave, GersPride, Assembly Fan Forums at Ibrox, work with websites, dialogue with the club - all these projects have been conducted to varying degrees over the last 5+ years by the different fan organisations. Some have been superb, some less so and some failures but there is always room for improvement. What kind of ideas could take these organisations to the next level? Could they contribute research into development of Ibrox? Can they provide finance/investment via new independent vehicles? How can they involve the wider support? Improved Representation It is well known that SDM promised supporters closer involvement with the club in terms of having some sort of input at board level. Depending on your viewpoint that was either very close, never on the table or not desirable anyway. Irrespective of that, many fans do feel they could be represented more effectively - both by the organisations themselves and by the club accepting our input. As it stands we have three main organisations - each working together but each markedly different in tactics, reputation and funding. How can this be improved? Can they work together better under the Assembly banner to pressurise club into more official/in-depth/regular dialogue? Is the Assembly a dead duck? How do we engage the club in a way to keep them interested while ensuring organisation members are happy? Have fun!

No rush. Would be helpful if the RST/Assembly bods on here also contributed some ideas they may have. Not so we can pull them apart but so we can discuss and refine them if necessary. I'll also make a few points later this morning...

PS: Original post updated in page 1