bmck

zappa, a millionaire wont overcome these problems either unless he is going to spend his own fortune on buying players. your post outlines the reality of the situation and the future, irrespective of the new owner. the question is whether we go into this new era of relative poverty with fan ownership or single ownership. personally i think this might be a blessing in disguise - once all the delusions are purged, and the complacency kicked away by financial hardship, people might start enjoying football for what it is. tv money has taken away something of the essence of what it means to follow a football team. i know people who have given up watching the old firm to follow their local pub team or amateur team as its more like what football should be all about. thats not for me, but while the big leagues will have the big paradise of world class footballers, maybe this bleak future will turn out to be a mini paradise of an unbloated appreciation of the game - players that are nearer fans etc.

Yup, the one that makes you yawn at people who wheel out "modicum of sense" nonsense and try to be condescending :yawn:

Thanks very much, man!

That's so needlessly contentious. Someone with more than a modicum of a sense would surely realise how utterly stupid it is to respond to a minor point with such disproportionate and self-aggrandising sarcasm.

the thing that makes it worst is the lack of a plan or overarching vision we can place this all in. i think we could get put up with getting humped in the champions league if there was some sort of plan for slow but steady progress. for example, if PLG had been good, and said "i am getting a team balanced with some decent youngsters taught to play good passing football - we will get humped continuously in the champions league for a fair few seasons, but stick with us, we are going somewhere" i think, given the dawning reality of our financial situation, we would be happy with that. its the lack of a helmsman and the sea sickness of a rudderless ship that makes this feel as bad as it does.

its not about them. it would probably be better for them if they had no rules at all.

there is no other way to approach a game, i dont think. there are loads of threads lamenting our predicament. you need we-can-do-this-get-behind-the-team sentiment going to a game otherwise you might as well stay at home.

We should rename it the vocational insecurity level

Look at his activity level; if any of us had that we'd be sacked from our job..... ... no actually, wait....

This is all a bit like the abortion debate. One side calls themselves pro-life and the other pro-choice; one side calls the other side religious-nutters and the other calls the other baby-killers. People put their own position in terms most favourable to their ends. Most people on here who don't trust the RST are pretty sensible and not uncharitable. And the lack of trust is not because of misinformation and spin, it's just our best analysis of their behaviour, which is publicly available for us to see. Most of us who feel this way are RST members, and had been staunch supporters from the beginning (something likewise proven true by a look back through our articles). Given the fall in our estimation of the RST, and the recent 'stewardship' of Murray, we have come to place a high stock on being able to trust our leaders. This period of relative crisis isn't going to go well without prinicipled leaders. We're the pro-strong-leaders lobby. Step over to UCB, and he sees above all things the need for unity. This period of relative crisis isn't going to go at all unless we can bury past feelings and move forward; the only people aiming for the bigger goal of fan ownership, which, being philosophical RST supporters, we all want, is the RST. This isn't about the RST increasing in power, and those at it's lead - it's about getting together as Rangers fans and doing what is right for the club. The pro-unity lobby value action over inaction, and the higher ideals over personal squabbles. The crux of the issue is this. The problem with progressing under abstract banners like 'the club', or 'the good of Rangers' is precisely that it's only abstract. In practical terms you are always united under something, or, more pertinently, someone. Doing things for the good of Rangers then implicitly implies doing things for the good of the RST . I know that for every bit of my weight I throw behind this, if it all works out, I am contributing to the people sitting at the top of the tree post-fan-ownership-revolution being the same people who essentially took over the RST by force and who have taken every opportunity to haughtily isolate themselves from those who disagree with anything they say. So, the question isn't unity; unity for unity's sake is Animal Farm. Like most people, when push comes to shove and it's a do-nothing or do-something situation, I'll probably do what I can to contribute to the best thing that appears. I think it was Tannochsidebear who said that, as he understood it, any step towards fan ownership would be a step toward the disollution of the RST. This isn't a strange idea, given that this is the RST's most defining issue. If this was somehow worked into an investment scheme - as a sort of show of faith that the RST think the issue is more important than themselves - I'd be more likely to invest. It's a tough one, and I think people are genuinly torn. My intuitions about the RST take on maineflyrean (a new one for the OED maybe) levels of cyncism, but I don't want to miss a once in a lifetime opportunity to do something rather than nothing. Everyone's nearer one end or the other of these two poles, I think. All UCB's rhetoric pushes us towards one end of the pole, and everything people like me see argues towards the other end. What we need is this dilemma to disappear. The only ways I can see it happening is that if either someone who isn't the Trust put it forward (removing trust issues about the trust), like the club or the bank. Or if the Trust somehow linked investment in their scheme to their functional end as an organisation. Anyway, enough rambling. My (extended) tuppence.

i mind tannadice went minorly on fire when i was there. disconcerting to see firemen with an axe and bag of sand on hand, as though it were a regular occurence. boycott.

andrew said it; there is no link between UEFA hypocrisy on racism and leniency on our punishment. the only link is pathological hatred of rangers.

I think it's a measure of a few things. There's probably that, but there's also concerns about the RST. I do think that once you get to a situation where someone says "We need you to sign up �£X per month for Y months to save the club" you'll get more than a couple of hundred people, though.

Frankie wont be back for a few days. Tomorrow even, maybe. I dunno. I've only been to RM once, but I liked it. Anyway, there is no party line here, but we do ask that you stay on topic and not spend too much time slagging off other sites. Let's keep this for discussion of the RST event.

for me it's because something like seven RST board members left as a matter of conscience after what was essentially a coup d'etat by the current people. from what i remember they held secret meetings to oust the existing chairman and take over the RST. they refused to answer questions on why people and left, and decided to 'protect' the members from all the facts regarding it. you've got to trust your leaders; i like UCB, but i honestly don't trust the rest of them. i'd love to. we need unity now. but you can't seperate rhetoric from the mouth it comes out of. nothing to me suggests they have the kind of mentality to lead.

you find it interesting when it suits you m8

relate it to the current and future ongoings at ibrox and its another article for the site man

the tangents we get onto...

no need to apologise at all, man. its just a bit of fun. you seemed to be saying we were just parroting what we had read, but thats just how it works. even with rangers - you just hear what everyones got to say then make up your mind. i just fling mate and man in wherever i can. ps i read ancient greek ok, whenever i speak it it comes out a bit glaswegian though

who was patronising? you were the one deconstructing our wee chat and boasting about your degree. and i read ancient greek pretty well thanks

and the ancient sources. thats how it work m8

that not really true! though i think thats an argument for another thread. whatever the case we fans dont want to be left with a slaves rights in whatever comes next no matter how much recent attention on slavery in athens in exaggerated.

you know you've got no chance when it's the managers in the 'yes' camp and the chairmen in the 'no'.

this is like the dream scenario. some guy to clear the debt and let us own the club debt cleared. if this turns out to be the case, however unlikely, we should stick up a statue of johnny as the herald of the best news ever.

if only there were a thank you function for specific part of a post