Transfer Ins and Outs - Summer 2009

[craig 5,199]

Like Cal says, the club have been up front about this. They haven�´t come out and said we will sign someone should Arsenal put sellik out, but that seems to be the consensus among fans.

 

Smith�´s hands are tied here. He has stated publicly he is aware we are short at the back. If the choice is between getting a Bosman in now and waiting til sellik get put out (which they will) to get a 2M player in then I for one would rather wait. I�´d rather Tonel than a 35 year old.

 

I would normally agree. However, there really is NO WAY of knowing that a 2 mill pound signing will be any better than a Bosman.

 

How much did Prodan cost us ? And how much did Boumsong cost us ?

How much did Flo cost us ? And how much did Prso cost us ?

 

Paying more money for players doesnt guarantee a better standard of player. Just ask Wenger whether the 10 mill he spent on Jeffers was worthwhile money......

[calscot 0]

I would normally agree. However, there really is NO WAY of knowing that a 2 mill pound signing will be any better than a Bosman.

 

How much did Prodan cost us ? And how much did Boumsong cost us ?

How much did Flo cost us ? And how much did Prso cost us ?

 

Paying more money for players doesnt guarantee a better standard of player. Just ask Wenger whether the 10 mill he spent on Jeffers was worthwhile money......

 

You've got a point but you're neglecting the reason for paying for a player. The player we most want costs money, but we could probably find what many would think of as a lesser player for next to nothing. The cost does not guarantee us a better player but the odds make it a better probability.

[craig 5,199]

You've got a point but you're neglecting the reason for paying for a player. The player we most want costs money, but we could probably find what many would think of as a lesser player for next to nothing. The cost does not guarantee us a better player but the odds make it a better probability.

 

Regardless, a better player doesnt necessarily equate to a more productive player in the SPL.

 

Every single signing is a gamble, regardless of whether it is a Bosman or a multi-million pound player.

 

There are plenty of players that get sold "for a fee" who turn out to be duds. Even if the probablility of them being a better player is higher, it won't be by much.

[Cotter 0]

I would normally agree. However, there really is NO WAY of knowing that a 2 mill pound signing will be any better than a Bosman.

 

How much did Prodan cost us ? And how much did Boumsong cost us ?

How much did Flo cost us ? And how much did Prso cost us ?

 

Paying more money for players doesnt guarantee a better standard of player. Just ask Wenger whether the 10 mill he spent on Jeffers was worthwhile money......

 

Aye I know what you�´re saying, but it�´s common knowledge Smith wants to sign Tonel. I wasn�´t making a general statement about preferring purchases to Bosmans. I�´ve seen Tonel a few times and he�´s solid.

 

Also the only Bosmans left at this stage that would be willing to sign for us are on the wrong side of 30.

[calscot 0]

Regardless, a better player doesnt necessarily equate to a more productive player in the SPL.

 

Every single signing is a gamble, regardless of whether it is a Bosman or a multi-million pound player.

 

There are plenty of players that get sold "for a fee" who turn out to be duds. Even if the probablility of them being a better player is higher, it won't be by much.

 

The trouble is you seem to be saying that we may as well get a list of Bosmans and randomly sign a few as the probability of their success is equal and unknown. That would save us a load of money but I don't think it would work.

 

Not all signings are equal and that includes Bosmans. Prso was an exceptional player and he was not a Bosman because no-one wanted him, he just ran down his contract. He'd played in the CL final just before we signed him and he was a Croatian legend.

 

Conversely Flo was ironically never actually much of a success as a player. His peak was as a super sub at Chelsea and never a first choice. His heart was never really in the game and heart is a requirement at Rangers. I recently watched him come on near the end of the MK Dons' playoff game where he did absolutely nothing and then missed the losing penalty in a shoot-out.

 

He was an incredibly poor signing by us out of desperation when we should have at least signed Benny McCarthy instead for a few million less - we didn't because he was cup tied for the CL but would have done as much as Flo that season helped us win the league and been available for the next season.

 

Looking back the writing was on the wall for both these players.

[craig 5,199]

Aye I know what you�´re saying, but it�´s common knowledge Smith wants to sign Tonel. I wasn�´t making a general statement about preferring purchases to Bosmans. I�´ve seen Tonel a few times and he�´s solid.

 

Also the only Bosmans left at this stage that would be willing to sign for us are on the wrong side of 30.

 

Agreed, everyone knows that WS wants Tonel and I think the rest of us would be happy with his signing too. I know I would.

 

Nothing wrong with signing a 30 yr old Bosman though - if they are good and dont demand a huge wage then they could very well be a stop-gap. And if a CB they would still be at least 5 yrs younger than Weir

[craig 5,199]

The trouble is you seem to be saying that we may as well get a list of Bosmans and randomly sign a few as the probability of their success is equal and unknown. That would save us a load of money but I don't think it would work.

 

Not all signings are equal and that includes Bosmans. Prso was an exceptional player and he was not a Bosman because no-one wanted him, he just ran down his contract. He'd played in the CL final just before we signed him and he was a Croatian legend.

 

Conversely Flo was ironically never actually much of a success as a player. His peak was as a super sub at Chelsea and never a first choice. His heart was never really in the game and heart is a requirement at Rangers. I recently watched him come on near the end of the MK Dons' playoff game where he did absolutely nothing and then missed the losing penalty in a shoot-out.

 

He was an incredibly poor signing by us out of desperation when we should have at least signed Benny McCarthy instead for a few million less - we didn't because he was cup tied for the CL but would have done as much as Flo that season helped us win the league and been available for the next season.

 

Looking back the writing was on the wall for both these players.

 

Wrong.

 

I did not say that we should randomly select a bunch of Bosmans and sign then as the probability is the same of getting a decent one. My point was there are no guarantees that a signing who cost us money will fare any better than a Bosman.

 

I gave a couple of examples where Bosman signings showed themselves to be as, if not more, adept at the SPL than far more lauded purchases and in similar positions.

 

That is not a suggestion from me that we should throw darts at a sheet of paper. What a ridiculous suggestion.

 

Try reading what I said initially.

 

Again, I didnt say all Bosmans are equal. I didnt say all fee-bearing signings are equal.

 

But the previous poster had suggested that we needed to spend money to get decent players in - that quite simply is not necessarily true.

 

So rather than jumping in with both feet and making wild assumptions you would have been better served at trying to look at the context in which I made the statement.

 

And maybe it wouldnt work if we got a bunch of Bosman's in or maybe it would neither you nor I know that definitively - but then, I wasnt arguing for or against Bosman's, which seems to be the point you are conveniently missing - I was merely playing devil's advocate that neither guarantee you a better player.

 

EDIT : I was maybe being a bit grumpy in this response so apologies if offence caused Cal. Perhaps a bit over the top but rather than delete the post I will leave it here for you to hang out to dry, if you want to.

Edited August 12, 2009 by craig

[Jon 0]

Calm down Craig for goodness sake, it was a response, thats all. We are all entitled to them.

 

Not going to dwell on this too much as catching up after a few days away.

 

I tend to see both points. We want decent players in, that therefore suggests a reputation and going back to the big name signigns. I agree I'd love one, BUT we have had so many players over the years that were under-rated or written off (Gazza the prime example) who have gone on to do great things for us.

 

Anyone remember Wallace before he signed? Robertson? Fleck? Ferguson dare I say, Brown (a legend forever in my eyes).

 

I think the tendancy is to read to much into a lot of the posts and counter posts here wher you should really take a step back.

 

Wait for the flak now as is bound to come, only reason i left Mo Jo out.

[Gazza_8 233]

You've got a point but you're neglecting the reason for paying for a player. The player we most want costs money, but we could probably find what many would think of as a lesser player for next to nothing. The cost does not guarantee us a better player but the odds make it a better probability.

 

So we should sign a lesser player just because he'll cost next to nothing over a player who might cost �£2m and improve the team?

 

What did Bougherra and Cuellar cost us again?

[johnnyk 158]

Argyle have signed striker Alan Gow from Glasgow Rangers for an undisclosed fee.

 

http://www.pafc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10364~1744306,00.html