Frankie 8,182 Posted September 8, 2009 Author Share Posted September 8, 2009 No it doesn't. It contains a statement by the Assembly saying that UEFA banned TBB. You gotta stop adding two and two and coming up with five. Hey, I'm not the only one with the dodgy maths here... I've already said the UEFA directive they quote from is alleged and not conclusive. I choose to believe it is true as it fits the rest of the situation IMO. So, just to confirm, do you conversely believe the club lied to the support and have wrongly blamed an innocent organisation for something they wanted to enforce? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie 8,182 Posted September 8, 2009 Author Share Posted September 8, 2009 Nope I am just agreeing with MF that there is no conclusive proof, for the reasons we've discussed. I can see perfectly the logic & circumstantial evidence that says UEFA did ban TBB but I can also see the gap in the paper-trail which says it can't be conclusively proved. What happened in that gap I've no idea and I'm not inclined to go there But I agree with MF as well that there is no conclusive proof. Doesn't stop me coming to a conclusion nonetheless. Get off the fence! :fish: 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maineflyer 0 Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Not trying to be obtuse as I appreciate MF may have answered already for you but why do you think UEFA specifically mentioned TBB to begin with, then removed it but fined us for sectarian chanting, then sat back and allowed Rangers to blame them for a ban they didn't make? I assume you also think the club made up the directives themselves and lied to the support at large therein? I honestly don't think such a conspiracy makes much sense given the (circumstantial I agree) evidence which is available. We were punished for singing TBB and we'd be punished more strongly if we didn't stop it. As such, of course both UEFA and RFC would want it banned. Ergo, there would surely be no need for some sort of underhand dealing behind the scenes? Come on Frankie, stick to the facts. The first UEFA directive did indeed mention TBB but not only avoided banning it but even alluded to the fact that it had been sung in Scotland for years and there was a circumstantial basis for assuming ths Scottish authorities "tolerated" it. Mentioning wasn't banning it - they didn't even suggest it should be banned. The actual words are there for anyone to read. And I'm not aware Rangers ever "blamed" UEFA for any ban. Where do you take that from? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie 8,182 Posted September 8, 2009 Author Share Posted September 8, 2009 Come on Frankie, stick to the facts. The first UEFA directive did indeed mention TBB but not only avoided banning it but even alluded to the fact that it had been sung in Scotland for years and there was a circumstantial basis for assuming ths Scottish authorities "tolerated" it. Mentioning wasn't banning it - they didn't even suggest it should be banned. The actual words are there for anyone to read. And I'm not aware Rangers ever "blamed" UEFA for any ban. Where do you take that from? Eh? UEFA appealed that original judgement/explanation and Rangers were then fined for discriminatory chants - i.e. TBB as that was the song involved in the case. And if Rangers then claimed UEFA banned the song (as the club have) then surely they are 'blaming' UEFA as opposed to saying UEFA find it acceptable but we don't so we're banning it. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maineflyer 0 Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Hey, I'm not the only one with the dodgy maths here... I've already said the UEFA directive they quote from is alleged and not conclusive. I choose to believe it is true as it fits the rest of the situation IMO. So, just to confirm, do you conversely believe the club lied to the support and have wrongly blamed an innocent organisation for something they wanted to enforce? Well if this mysterious, unseen directive actually exists and actually came from UEFA - where is it? Why do you choose to form an opinion based upon something that no one has seen, that no one can quote from, that no one can produce, that has never been made public by the club and (unlike every other UEFA directive) was never published by UEFA. I've heard of a leap of faith but that's ridiculous. Best just to stick to the facts. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie 8,182 Posted September 8, 2009 Author Share Posted September 8, 2009 Well if this mysterious, unseen directive actually exists and actually came from UEFA - where is it? Why do you choose to form an opinion based upon something that no one has seen, that no one can quote from, that no one can produce, that has never been made public by the club and (unlike every other UEFA directive) was never published by UEFA. I've heard of a leap of faith but that's ridiculous. Best just to stick to the facts. I'm comfortable enough with coming to my conclusion based on the whole process in conjunction with trusting (some of) those who attended the meeting with the club on my behalf. Where is every UEFA directive that is made to clubs published publicly in full? I can't find them... Again, just to confirm, do you believe the club lied to the support and have wrongly blamed an innocent organisation for something they wanted to enforce? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maineflyer 0 Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 TBB as that was the song involved in the case.That's just you making the connection again. Stick to the facts. And if Rangers then claimed UEFA banned the song (as the club have) then surely they are 'blaming' UEFA as opposed to saying UEFA find it acceptable but we don't so we're banning it. No, they are not blaming UEFA in anything I've seen, so I wouldn't use unnecessarily emotive language like that. They are not even simply saying that the ban came from UEFA - they got the Assembly to do that. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Spliff 0 Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 But I agree with MF as well that there is no conclusive proof. Doesn't stop me coming to a conclusion nonetheless. Get off the fence! :fish: haha It's impossible to get completely off the fence without saying (as MF has done) that RANGERS banned TBB and not UEFA (OR) saying that UEFA banned TBB despite the conclusive paper-trail of evidence being missing. My instinct is that UEFA probably included TBB in their directives to the club, but I also believe the club felt it was in a real corner and needed a clear way out so you never know. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maineflyer 0 Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 I'm comfortable enough with coming to my conclusion based on the whole process in conjunction with trusting (some of) those who attended the meeting with the club on my behalf.I've got no problem with your comfort, only the basis for it. Again, just to confirm, do you believe the club lied to the support and have wrongly blamed an innocent organisation for something they wanted to enforce? See my previous post. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Spliff 0 Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Is this the longest thread Gersnet has had? Can't remember a longer one since I joined in January anyway. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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