Responsible????

[calscot 0]

David Murray is undoubtedly the architect of our present predicament.

However, I can't remember anyone criticising him when the big money was spent in his successful years.

So, if we blame him for our present problems we must also praise him for those great years.

 

Got to totally disagree with this. Nobody criticised as we were told we could afford it. I'm sure we would have criticised if we knew the extent of the finances. You can't criticise what you don't know about. I don't know how people don't understand this - it's just too obvious to even start explaining.

 

Imagine you agree with you wife to spend your ten grand of savings on a dream holiday with her organising it. She then treated you to an amazing holiday with first class travel and five star luxury while telling you she was in budget - would you complain? Imagine then you come back to you're now 100 grand in debt and have to sell the house? Would you accept her excuse that it's your fault as you "didn't complain at the time"?

 

Our biggest fault was trusting him with the money and believing his smoke and mirrors.

[calscot 0]

Exactly. It's something a lot of fans overlook. Put simply we wouldn't have 9iar without SDM. Yes, it has cost us now...good idea for a poll.

 

I can't understand what you're talking about. SDM took over a club in rude financial health and winning everything on the pitch and starting to do well in Europe.

 

Who is to say that David Holmes and the Malborough family could not have delivered NIAR when they were already doing so well and remember Celtic were in freefall and the New Firm in decline? I can't see who our challengers would be even if we spent a lot less - but why would we if we were in the black?

 

From what I've read on here, we were still in the black after NIAR, then Murray bankrupted us after appointing Advocaat. In four years it looks like he overspent by about £100M including tax avoidance - even though the amounts being invested in the club were huge... By not paying tax in the normal way, he's now made us liable for up to another £50M.

 

Two league titles, four trophies and slightly above average in Europe in four years, isn't anywhere near enough reward to balance the following ten years of money problems and now administration.

[Darthter 542]

I must admit to being VERY surprised at the way the poll is standing just now. Looks like I'm the only one who blames Whyte!!!

 

While I believe Murray took us to the edge, at the time it looked like the Big Tax case was the thing that was going to push us over. The bank debt was reducing, and bill were being paid. While new players were scarce, we did still sign a couple, Jelavic being the obvious biggie. SDM was never squeaky clean, but as far as I'm aware, he never lied to the support. Things were relatively stable.

 

Along comes Mr Craig Whyte, promising £5m investment in the 1st team per year with the possibility of front loading that if required. Promises of further investment in the general running of the club & various improvements through out the stadium. Granted the stadium improvement have been done - with talk of a lot of it being subsidised by 3rd parties, but done none the less. There was several new faces added to the squad, and several removed - only 3 of those new acquisitions are regular players - yet there is still debate over whether there was £5m investment. Some folks figures point to a much lower figure.

 

We have also had constant court battles with various parties over various unpaid monies. Then 9 months after he takes over a seemingly stable ship...it sinks. Revelations come out that he hasn't payed various taxes etc which were the main reasons for administration. Several other reports concerning how he actually financed the take over in the 1st place, and concerns over how sums of money have been moved around since he took over. Also ongoing investigation regarding illegal practices etc.

 

SDM's actions may have taken us to the edge, but sign were we weren't going any further. No only did Whyte take us over the edge.....he took a bloody great run & jump!!!! Therefore, in summation I find Mr C Whyte guilty of putting the club in its current situation!!!

[BlueMazza 0]

I'm quite surprised that 11 people solely blame SDM. The current situation, being administration is due to non payment of PAYE/NI during Whyte's tenure so I would have expected the Whyte and Murray votes to be the other way round. Murray has culpability yes in selling to Whyte and potentially the illegal use of EBT's but even the Administrator's confirmed the reasons we are in it just now.

[Danny 0]

Polls are meaningless. I started one on rm for some fun and while the results are eye opening, they're ultimately useless.

[biggordy 0]

Got to totally disagree with this. Nobody criticised as we were told we could afford it. I'm sure we would have criticised if we knew the extent of the finances. You can't criticise what you don't know about. I don't know how people don't understand this - it's just too obvious to even start explaining.

 

Imagine you agree with you wife to spend your ten grand of savings on a dream holiday with her organising it. She then treated you to an amazing holiday with first class travel and five star luxury while telling you she was in budget - would you complain? Imagine then you come back to you're now 100 grand in debt and have to sell the house? Would you accept her excuse that it's your fault as you "didn't complain at the time"?

 

Our biggest fault was trusting him with the money and believing his smoke and mirrors.

 

"We were told we could afford it" well we now know we were wrong to trust him.

A bit different from trusting your wife to trusting a businessman you've never actually met.

Para 2 answers Para 1

Did we always trust Murray 100% ? - NO! Was he investigated as much as Whyte has in the past few weeks - NO !

[biggordy 0]

I blame Murray solely because we would never had met Whyte if it wasn't for the initial mismanagement.

I still think Whyte is just a fall guy being paid to take all the flack.

He will disappear as suddenly as he appeared in my opinion.

[Zappa 0]

Of all Murray's acts of malfeasance against RFC, and they were many and varied, without doubt the greatest was accepting Whyte's 20 pieces of silver.

 

I don't think he had a choice in the matter. I think Lloyds forced him to sell to Whyte.

[Gribz 743]

Murray. He allowed the mega spending knowing what the outcome would be down the line. Whyte is just a lying wee chunt!

 

Agree with Gav. The club was in a mess for years before we'd even heard of Whyte but it just didnt get the exposure it is now. Whyte is a patsy and a chancer and has a reputation of attempting to turn business around on the cheap but here the HMRC has called his bluff and he is looking like a top shelf clown.

 

But the mess was created years ago...Murray was selling of things like the ticket office and the Albion years ago.

[Ergatrude 0]

I think ultimately Murray is responsible.

 

Murray spent the money. Murray oversaw the EBT's. Murray sold the club to an alleged crook. Murray was warned about Whyte on several occassions. Murray used share rights issues to reduce debts, twice iirc, and failed. Murray allegedly used the club to save one of his companies several years back (I'm not sure if this was financial or just using Ibrox as security).

 

MURRAY left us in the shit.