Kilmarnock Football Club Supporters Association Statement â?? 16th June 2012

[UCF2008 0]

That is not a gamble I would be willing to take.

 

At the moment there's probably more opposition to us joining any Scottish league than there is of us joining the English, German or French leagues.

 

We need to make a stance and put things in perspective for these fools.

[amms 0]

Great post amms and I don't think your view is a minority one by any means!

 

A lot of fans do seem to be thinking that way, but not me. The way I'm looking at this is purely based on precedent and I think our punishment should be roughly in line with the punishment given to Leeds in 2007 because their situation is the closest thing to ours in recent British football. I'd even be willing to take a slightly heavier punishment than Leeds did due to the amount of money Craig Whyte failed to pay HMRC during his tenure and the amount of money owed to other creditors. Relegation to the bottom tier of Scottish football however, is completely over the top and it's a punishment which is being forced into the public eye & minds by the Scottish media which has been having a field day over this whole mess for many months now.

 

It seems pretty obvious to me though, that the bloodthirsty anti-Rangers party line in the media of recent months isn't only driven by the desire to sell red tops and broadsheets, it's driven by a snowball effect created by the fans of other clubs, particularly our arch rivals.

 

Now, maybe it's me who's in the minority here, but as I've said, I fail to see what we've done to deserve relegation to the third division and I also fail to see why we should bend over and take it up the sh*tter by saying ourselves that we deserve to be relegated to the third division or worse, should relegate ourselves to the third division out of some sort of skewed sense of dignified justice or martyrdom.

 

Don't Livingston offer the closest precedent?

It's difficult to see clearly in all this, like you say there is a lot of noise, much of it unhelpful and spite driven, that needs to be waded through first.

I personally think the concept of a 'new' club joining a league system is well established in football. Even at amateur and boys league levels you start at the lowest league no matter your history or size. The massive grey area is over our 'new' club status. We're clearly not a new club in many accepted senses. We're the same club, playing in the same place with the same fans. But we are new in other senses, the most important one for me is the absence of our debt and our inability to pay the people we owe. I think if we were to return to the top flight it sends out a message that what we did is okay, I don't think it is.

 

When Inverness joined the senior league there was no suggestion they should start in say Division 1, despite it being fairly obvious they were of a size and potential that they could compete there. When Clydebank joined the Junior league they didn't go straight into the Superleague, they had to start at the bottom. This despite being clearly one of the biggest and best supported teams in the league and with the resources to compete at the highest level as this season has shown.

 

It's difficult drawing parallels with us and ICT or Clydebank Juniors, there are clearly some very large differences between us all, however the concept of a new team starting at the bottom is well accepted in football, no matter their size, history or potential.

 

The agenda driven, hate-filled punishment junkies from other clubs and parts of the SFA lead us, the greater Rangers support, into a defensive position. We know that some see this are their chance to do us down, inflict damage on us for petty, spiteful reasons that have nothing to do with football. At the same time anything we achieve in football from today on will always have this hanging over it. If we win the SPL next season, instead of being seen as the second miracle of Bern it'll be seen as a victory for tax avoiding, to big to fail corporate bullies. That's not who we really are.

Edited June 17, 2012 by amms
poor spelling of Swiss towns

[GovanAllan 0]

That would be the case if we were a new club were not.

 

So just how many years have we to go without winning anything before we have served this so called penance Amms. You could say that if we go to the third we shouldn't be allowed to win that either on that arguement.

 

How do you think the teams in the top of the third will fancy having us thrown in and stopping them winning the league, can they scream no we don't want those tax dodging cheats in here unless they can't get promoted for X amount years.

 

Going by your reasoning we should just chuck it because we will always be classed as tax cheats and any win will be tainted. Me thinks you pander to the hate filled bigots in this country just a bit to much, I won't we've been punished enough it's time to draw a line and move on for the benefit of Scottish Football not just Rangers.

 

Where does it stop mate?

Edited June 17, 2012 by GovanAllan

[der Berliner 3,286]

IMHO, we should make home jerseys available with a 54 on the back "AND COUNTING" as the "player's name". They would sell in their thousands and fill our coffers.

 

It will be a hard fight with these bampots and they will want to make us carry the stigma of tax-cheats and no-history folk. But then again, some of them may also want to see us erased from history altogether and we should let them know that this wish will die with them when their time comes.

[Juancornetto 1]

I think we've under estimated the level of bitterness out there in Scottish Football fandom, some of it is understandable as Amms has said but I get the feeling that years of watching us sweep all asunder has left all but the most balanced of fans with a large slice of jealousy. It's that jealousy that drives the unwashed to their heights of lunacy after all. Trying to claim some of our titles tells you all you need to know.

 

It doesn't matter what fans groups do or say their Chairmen will do what's best for the clubs financially and strategically after all, that is their job. These fans groups are about to find out that they are simply customers of a company who are putting them in an almost impossible situation. Sky may or may not stomach one season without the Old Firm games but they will not want to be a part of a product that offers nothing in the way of spectacle, drama, or competitiveness. That's what would happen without Rangers.

[EDGE 0]

I find it hard to argue with the logic of punishments relating to Newco. After all, we've gained a sporting advantage from shedding anywhere between £50m-£100m worth of toxic debt.

[gisabeer 409]

i dont think the fans opinion will count for shit. dundee utd 10 mill in debt for example will be taking orders from their bank manager as will the vast majority of them.

 

their fans can spout all their crap if they want. their opinion counts fopr nothing.

[amms 0]

That would be the case if we were a new club were not.

 

So just how many years have we to go without winning anything before we have served this so called penance Amms. You could say that if we go to the third we shouldn't be allowed to win that either on that arguement.

 

How do you think the teams in the top of the third will fancy having us thrown in and stopping them winning the league, can they scream no we don't want those tax dodging cheats in here unless they can't get promoted for X amount years.

 

Going by your reasoning we should just chuck it because we will always be classed as tax cheats and any win will be tainted. Me thinks you pander to the hate filled bigots in this country just a bit to much, I won't we've been punished enough it's time to draw a line and move on for the benefit of Scottish Football not just Rangers.

 

Where does it stop mate?

It stops in August when the league begins again. If we go to Division 3 then that's it, no more sanctions or penalties, focus goes back to football again.

We don't have to go any years without winning something. If we start again in Div 3 then we should be able to win that title and enter the League and Scottish Cups. We're not in Europe anyway so we've no opportunities there for a few years.

The thought of winning the Scottish Cup, whilst in the third division is actually quite exciting.

 

I think we're confusing 'punishment' with doing what's right (what I think is right, only my opinion rather than an accepted fact). Starting again in division 3 doesn't have to be seen as 'punishment', it would be a new beginning for Rangers. We'll miss out on SPL level football for a few seasons (hopefully) but is that such a loss to regain our self respect?

[der Berliner 3,286]

Honestly, their "supports'" boycott messages comes from their supporters associations and trusts and whatnot. What sort of percentage of their support do these people actually represent. Have these people any sort of grand influence on each club's attendance figures for more than a months or so? Will it throw them into turmoil if it's not 4.356 but 3.800 fans paying? At worst, their attendance figures may drop if Rangers come to visit ... hey, an nearly empty stadium then! ... and there it will stop. For your common SPL supporter will want to see his team win against the other 9 teams where they can expect it and who have nothing to do with Rangers FC and whatnot.

[Zappa 0]

Don't Livingston offer the closest precedent?

 

No they don't and unfortunately there isn't a close enough precedent in Scottish football to use. That's why I think the Leeds case should be used.

 

The Livingston case is actually a really messed up one because they've been in administration twice now. The first time was in 2004/05 and they got off scot-free without any punishments at all despite being in administration for practically a whole SPL season after the new administration rules (10 point deduction) were introduced early in '04. That was a big mistake by the SPL because Livi should have been punished. When they went into administration the second time in 2009 they were in the 1st division and I think the SFL decided to demote them to the 3rd division because they had gotten off without punishment from the SPL in '04/05.

 

Anyway, in the case of Leeds, they've only been in administration once and it was due to a very similar situation as ourselves - non payment of taxes to HMRC. In our case it was reported that Whyte had failed to pay HMRC about £9m + fines. In Leeds' case it was a little less at about £7.5m + fines. Leeds were given the standard 10 point deduction for entering administration and a further 15 point deduction for the start of the following League 1 season because they exited administration without a CVA.