barca72 440 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Observation: Anyone convicted of wrong-doing owes a debt to society. When the person convicted of wrong-doing has settled the conditions attached to that conviction with the relevant authorities, then his/her debt with society is said to be paid in full. Question: How many times must the person who was convicted of wrong-doing have to pay in kind or otherwise for that debt to society? Embarassment will not pay the bills. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfly Trumpeter 50 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Died in the wool blue nose or not, we should call Dave King's bosses and let them know in no uncertain terms what he is up to and that we don't want him anywhere near our club. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
der Berliner 3,245 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Died in the wool blue nose or not, we should call Dave King's bosses and let them know in no uncertain terms what he is up to and that we don't want him anywhere near our club. Dave King's bosses? Who might these be? What is he up to then? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forlanssister 3,050 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Dave King's bosses? Who might these be? What is he up to then? Whooooooooooosssssshhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crucible 0 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I was going to say I wonder why DD doesn't get the same scrutiny before I realised I don't wonder at all. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappa 0 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 The facts speak for themselves. Dave King is a convicted criminal. As Darther says, you cannot be convicted of a criminal offence for tax avoidance. If you want to regard Dave King as a criminal, then it's your own choice, but I won't be joining you. Breaking certain laws and being convicted in a court might technically make you a criminal, but there are a VAST number of laws and subsequent 'crimes' which don't actually warrant a person being regarded as a 'criminal'. Dave King is not a 'criminal' on my moral compass. In his case there's also the fact that his so-called tax 'crimes' were based in one of the most corrupt countries in the world where government departments and their employees are renowned for corruption. This is an important point because certain SARS officials were sacked and convicted on corruption and/or fraud charges related to the King tax case/s. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappa 0 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 The facts speak for themselves. Dave King is a convicted criminal. Here's a recent statement from the SA Justice minister regarding their widespread corruption problems: Why we're naming and shaming those convicted of fraud and corruption - Jeff Radebe 9 Jun 2013 The fight against corruption remains one of the major priorities of government because in both private and public sector, corruption has a detrimental effect on government's effort to deliver effective services to the people. In line with the Justice, Crime, Prevention and Security Cluster's commitment to deal with corruption, we will today release a list containing names of people who have been convicted of fraud and corruption (see here - PDF). This action is evidence that Government has adopted a zero tolerance approach to the fight against all corrupt activities either in the public or private sector. This aggressive stance has been initiated to ensure that, for the first time in the history of our democracy; criminals in our society will be made known, and held accountable for their actions publicly. The aim is to send a strong message to criminals that their actions will not go without scrutiny in the public domain. To this effect, it also aims to deter others from engaging in corrupt and criminal activities. The framework for the fight against corruption in the country is also in line with international practices, such as, the United Nations Convention against Corruption (UNCAC), Southern African Development Community (SADC) protocol against Corruption and Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) Convention on Combating Bribery on Foreign Officials in International Business Transaction. In promoting good governance and transparency, various bodies and institutions have been working together to combat corruption. This joint effort shows the commitment by government to deal with corruption. The JCPS Cluster's Anti- Corruption Task Team (ACTT) continues to work with government departments to strengthen governance systems, reduce risks and prevent corruption. The ACTT was established in 2010 by President Zuma as an interdepartmental body comprised of National Prosecution Authority (NPA), Asset Forfeiture Unit (AFU), South African Revenue Services (SARS), HAWKS, Special Investigation Unit (SIU), Financial Intelligence Centre (FIC) and National Treasury to fast-track investigations of high-priority and high-profile corruption cases. For the 2012/13 financial year, criminal investigations had been recorded against 242 accused persons in 89 priority cases involving serious corrupt incidents. These involve R5 million or more per incident. In terms of the investigations against the 242 persons, further investigations are progressing against 193 accused; 2 persons were acquitted and the charges were withdrawn against 14 accused, whilst 42 persons have already been convicted. These 42 names are mainly cases which were prioritized because of the huge amounts involved but other names from a long list of over 3000 convicted individuals will be released later. I will not go into the details of the various cases involving the 42 individuals, as the list will be provided at the end of this briefing, however I do wish to give some indication of some of the matters involved: In the Post Bank case, a syndicate managed to obtain access to computer system of Post Bank. They transferred funds to Post Bank accounts created with the specific purpose of committing fraud and theft. The total amount involved was R42, 782. 500.00. Boy Meshack Thekiso, David Mtsoane and Teboho Masoleng were sentenced to 25 years, 15 years and 15 years respectively while the case against Kabelo Kekana is still on going and postponed to 22 July for further investigations. In the Department of Minerals & Energy-BAS case, the department employees obtained BAS System Control login details by installing keystroke logging software on the computer of the BAS Controller. These access details were then used to re-activate the profiles of former employees of the department with the necessary access rights to record, confirm and approve payments on the BAS system. A total of 9 sundry payments totaling R15, 081, 824.49 were then made using these re-activated profiles. Two syndicate members Petros Mngomezulu and Simon Zungu were convicted and sentenced to 8 years imprisonment. A syndicate gained access to SARS systems (Midrand, Gauteng) with the corrupt assistance of a SARS employee and a consultant contracted by SARS. They fraudulently changed banking details on the system to divert and affect fraudulent refunds to the value of R77 million into the syndicate's bank accounts. Six individuals, namely, AliRaza Naqvi, Mazhar Raza Syed, Zaheer Seedat, Samuel Thabo Gouwe, Audella Makhubu and Fiza Naqvi were involved in this case were arrested and convicted. 3 accused persons were sentenced to effective 24 years imprisonment while other 3 were given 10 years suspended for 5 years. The Alfred Nzo District Municipality in Mt Ayliff, EC, was defrauded of amounts totaling R28 million through payments of ghost employees, tender overpayments, fraudulent vouchers and requisition orders. Three employees of the municipality, Ms Clementina. Hlabi, Ms Joyce.Ngcawe, and Mr D N Sopoli were arrested and convicted. Another case relates to fraud amounting to R6.8 million where Marthie Fredrika Mulder, Andries Albertus Hermanus Mulder and Frederik Johannes Kruger defrauded firm of attorneys and received 20 years, 15 years and 5 years imprisonment terms respectively. A full list of the 42 individuals will be provided at the end of this briefing. Most of the serious corruption related cases are dealt with in the Regional Court Specialized Commercial Crimes Courts. For the period 2012/13 they received 10 941 new cases, and obtained convictions against 3 968 persons (813 being foreign nationals) in 3 763 cases with 35 833 counts. 152 JCPS Cluster employees have been successfully convicted for corruption. The ACTT has further indicated that in addition to the statistics provided above, a total of 758 persons are currently under investigation for corrupt activities and in total freezing orders to the value of R1.07 billion have been obtained. The R1.07 billion include forfeiture orders for R14.7 million brought against the former CEO of the Land Bank, Mr. Philemon Mohlahlane and Gauteng businessman Mr. Dan Mofokeng who defrauded the Land Bank and transferred funds to a range of outside entities for their own benefit. A number of farms owned by the Department of Rural Development and Land Affairs in KZN were fraudulently transferred to persons who were not entitled to them. The farms were part of the Land Reform program and were earmarked for transfer to trusts representing rural communities. The total value of the farms forfeited to date is R113 million. The SIU has also been successfully conducting investigations pursuant to Presidential proclamations, and have referred various serious corruption cases to law enforcement agencies. In this regard the SIU received 34 proclamations during the period 2009 until 2013. The SIU currently has 25 active proclamations that are being dealt with, 10 from national government, seven from provincial government, six from local government and two from state owned enterprises. Seven proclamations had been finalised in the 2012/13 financial year, 15 are envisaged for finalisation in the 2013/14 financial year and 10 in the 2014/15 financial year. Of the current investigations, 67% focus on procurement and irregularities in Supply Chain Management. The SIU has also contributed to investigating 38 criminal cases in terms of the Limpopo intervention involving irregularities to the amount of R153.7 million, and it assisted the DPSA on 41 disciplinary cases relating to the Limpopo intervention. The AFU completed forfeiture 302 cases in the past financial year with a value of R118,4 million. The success rate of the AFU over this period was about 95% (289 cases). In addition 276 new freezing orders were obtained for the past financial year to the value of R518 million. In the past 18 months, the AFU (as part of the ACTT) working with the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform have recovered through forfeiture farms to the value of R59 million lost through corruption, which can now be used for proper service delivery to the poor in the land reform program. Another 5 farms to the value of R74 million have been frozen and should be recovered soon. Further farms with a total value of more than R52 million are currently under investigation for possible seizure in the next six months. A comprehensive list of forfeiture orders will also be provided at the end of this briefing. The JCPS Cluster will leave no stone unturned to ensure that no one enjoys ill-gotten gains and wealth amassed from unlawful activities. The fight against crime requires that we deal effectively with corrupt officials whose actions undermine the integrity of the criminal justice system and the work of the JCPS cluster as a whole. Within the realm of disciplinary procedures 794 matters have been finalised in relation to corruption and related charges internally within the JCPS departments during the period 1 April 2012 - 20 April 2013. The average turnaround times for the past financial year have been tracked, and generally fell within a 3 month period. Government has also strengthened the anti-corruption measures through the National Anti-Corruption hotline which is monitored monthly. It is clear from the preceding information that government is resolute in dealing with corruption as a priority area. This is further borne out by the common purpose in this regard which has been eloquently inculcated in the vision for 2030, as contained in the National Development Plan relating to the fight against corruption, and which states - Our vision for 2030 is a South Africa that has zero tolerance for corruption. In 2030, South Africa will be a society in which citizens do not offer bribes and have the confidence and knowledge to hold public and private officials to account, and in which leaders have integrity and high ethical standards. Anti-corruption agencies should have the resources, independence from political influence, and powers to investigate corruption, and their investigations should be acted upon. As the JCPS cluster, we make this undertaking that we will continue to provide such capacity and decisive leadership to fight corruption where and when we find it. This is driven by our commitment to ensure that all citizens are and feel safe. Full list of convicted persons So, before running around in a state of moral panic calling Dave King a "criminal" in a manner reminiscent of a Reformation witch-hunt, I suggest that it might be worth reading up on SARS & SA government corruption in greater detail, given that hundreds of cases of corruption involving officials from the SA Revenue Service (Sars) department alone are being reported every year and corruption throughout the SA government is rife. Further reading on corruption within the South African government and departments such as SARS: SA government corruption SARS corruption SA Revenue Service corruption 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
der Berliner 3,245 Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Dave King expected to fly to Scotland for Rangers talks Prospective Rangers chairman Dave King is set to fly into Glasgow in the next 48 hours to discuss his involvement with the club. According to reports, the South Africa-based businessman may even make an appearance at East Fife with Ally McCoist’s side due to travel there on Saturday. King had originally planned his trip to coincide with the club’s AGM, which has now been postponed until late December. (Source to come) The Sun The "dreaded" 48 hours and much hearsay, it seems. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
compo 6,129 Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 is mr king a criminal of course not lets bring him back to invest if he so pleases don't forget this chap has seen 20 million of his money wiped out in ibrox I for one would welcome him back . 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calgacus 8 Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Does anyone know what s.75 of the SA Tax Act says? Without knowing what the section says, we do not know what "crime" he has been convicted of. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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