The Herald-Football biggest contributor to Scotland's sectarianism

[RANGERRAB 3,254]

It is a fact that many non-RC's simply do not trust the RC church as it seeks power & influence(particularly in governments) wherever it is found.

I'm surprised these reports or surveys failed to realise that.

Edited February 20, 2015 by RANGERRAB

[calscot 0]

Teachers may not openly create sectarianism but there is too much coincidence in what Scottish Catholics come out with all the time for there not to be a very large element of indoctrination.

 

"Revisionism" is their biggest weapon, which makes it all too easy to dismiss ANY history that shows your chosen side in a bad light or those you hate in a good light.

 

But there is also all the anti-armed forces and royalty stuff that is endemically ingrained. And of course a venomous hatred of everything Rangers is highly encouraged and not supporting Celtic is highly frowned upon.

 

It's obvious that if those brought up as Protestants chose Rangers at prevalently as Catholics choose Celtic, Rangers would have about three or four times the current support and the rest of the SPL and below would have a similar support to 4th tier clubs.

[der Berliner 3,239]

Just out of interest, anyone willing to create a poll asking whether religion (or something else) made you choose Rangers as your favourite team?

[craig 5,195]

Yes you mean as 1\3 of all driving accidents are caused through drink driving, which means that the drivers were sober in 2\3 of the accidents. So lets all drive pissed and it will save 1\3 of the accidents.

 

You clearly miss the point pete. You are using a 2 variable scenario, which means one WILL be the majority. You can say the "biggest contributing factor" without it being more than 50%.....

[ian1964 10,409]

Is all this just pure coincedence before our live game tonight?,we will be under full scrutiny tonight for sure!.

[JohnMc 2,468]

That's the argument that the RC church uses and it's deeply flawed IMO. I don't think there's many who believe teachers go about promoting sectarianism. It's not the day-to-day teaching but it's the fact that RC children are forcibly separated for their education from children of other faiths that emphasises the differences.

 

I had Protestant, Jewish, Muslim and RC kids in my street and most of us could walk to and from school together without any problems. On the way home, we would make plans to play football together. The RC kids would have a bus pick them up and they would disappear off to some other school. They were never part of the plans for the football as I didn't really know them and hardly ever saw them. I didn't know what the difference was but I knew that they were different as they wouldn't go to my school.

 

Edit -when you have this divide enforced on kids then it will lead to divisions. I grew up with no RC friends, but had plenty of Jewish ones and one Muslim one but it was nothing to do with bigotry, but setting up that sort of environment will lead to differences and can lead to bigotry on both sides.

 

 

 

A sweeping statement that will be true to an extent but is not the main factor in my experience. It's an easy answer that is used to try and excuse the continued financial support of an education system that gives choices to only one section of the community.

 

 

It's difficult to respect anyone's opinion who thinks Graham Spiers deserves a chapter of a book, so I'll give it a miss.

 

His chapter is worth a read as are many other chapters in the book it's a shame Speirs piece overshadowed everything else.

 

Anyway, I'm not promoting denominational education, I'm simply saying I don't think it's to blame for sectarianism in our society. Most Jewish people in Scotland go to non-denominational schools yet anti-semitism is still in existence. Racism still exists yet black kids go to the same schools as the rest of us as do as do Asian kids yet they'll all experience various forms of racism here from time-to-time.

 

I'm going to assume you aren't a bigot Bluedell. I've been reading your posts on various forums and blogs for a long time and you've never given me that impression, indeed I'd say the opposite. Why aren't you a bigot, after all you had no RC friends as a child and were aware of their 'differentness'? I'm going to assume it's because you were brought up to treat people equally, to judge someone on their actions and words and not on their colour or religious beliefs or that in your adult life you've learned that people come in all kinds no matter their colour or religious beliefs. Certainly that's been my experience.

 

Genuine sectarianism, a real dislike of a person or people you've not met simply because they were educated to follow a slightly different version of the same basic belief system as you can only be borne out of ignorance. The fact they went to a different school doesn't excuse the basic ignorance or fear that underlines all sectarianism.

 

For the record though I'm far from convinced 'sectarianism' is a big problem here, it makes headlines but I don't believe it has a meaningful effect on most people's lives, no matter their background.

[JohnMc 2,468]

As BD says, it isn't the teachers who are creating any sectarianism. That is a red herring IMHO. What DOES create mistrust and division is the SYSTEM. Any system which singles out a particular type of person based on "whatever" will inherently lead to suspicion, skepticism and more than likely a dislike, mistrust and a lack of integration.

 

It isn't the teachers, it is the system itself which gives rise to the higher probability of sectarianism.

 

But people have to take personal responsibility for themselves or their children. Blaming the 'school system' doesn't absolve the individual for being a bigot surely? The fact that I should mistrust someone who is basically identical to me in every way except for their interpretation of aspects of Pauline based theology is truly a bizarre construct. You (probably) went to a different school to me, if I mistrust or actively dislike you because of that then I'm a dick, it's not an excuse.

[biggordy 0]

No mention i see of the apartheid schooling, quelle surprise.

 

Who can forget this article when John Lamont MSP dared to pose the question in the Scottish Parliament

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-13891033

[Bluedell 5,329]

Anyway, I'm not promoting denominational education, I'm simply saying I don't think it's to blame for sectarianism in our society. Most Jewish people in Scotland go to non-denominational schools yet anti-semitism is still in existence. Racism still exists yet black kids go to the same schools as the rest of us as do as do Asian kids yet they'll all experience various forms of racism here from time-to-time.

 

I don't remember coming across any anti-Semitism at school despite there being a lot of Jewish kids there, but I do remember some anti-RC sectarianism, and there were practically no RCs at the school.

 

I'm going to assume you aren't a bigot Bluedell. I've been reading your posts on various forums and blogs for a long time and you've never given me that impression, indeed I'd say the opposite. Why aren't you a bigot, after all you had no RC friends as a child and were aware of their 'differentness'? I'm going to assume it's because you were brought up to treat people equally, to judge someone on their actions and words and not on their colour or religious beliefs or that in your adult life you've learned that people come in all kinds no matter their colour or religious beliefs. Certainly that's been my experience.

 

Does the home environment have an influence as to whether someone becomes a bigot? Of course it does.

Will mixing with people on a daily basis and becoming their friend have an influence as to whether someone becomes a bigot? Of course it does.

 

Both have an influence and I just can't accept that separate schools has no influence on bigotry. The level of it is up to each individual person, but it seems crzy to me to deny that it's irrelevant.

 

 

Genuine sectarianism, a real dislike of a person or people you've not met simply because they were educated to follow a slightly different version of the same basic belief system as you can only be borne out of ignorance. The fact they went to a different school doesn't excuse the basic ignorance or fear that underlines all sectarianism.

 

I'm not saying that it does.

 

For the record though I'm far from convinced 'sectarianism' is a big problem here, it makes headlines but I don't believe it has a meaningful effect on most people's lives, no matter their background.

 

It's a lot less of an issue than it was 30-40 year ago. More mixed marriages, more kids mixing at school and have friends of different religions, more RCs going to non-denom schools has all helped, although I wouldn't say that this is the sole cause.

[pete 2,499]

Personally I think calling it under sectarianism is a red herring. Almost every country has problems with rival football supporters. Unfortunately the sport seems to attract a sort of tribalism and as in life almost every tribe has a faction who are willing to go to the extreme. Yesterday in Herenveen, Herenveen and Groningen supporters clashed in the city centre with 3 people taken to hospital 2 with stab wounds and 1 with head injuries.

 

On Twitter Roma supporters are declaring they are going to take revenge in Rotterdam on Thursday for the Feynoords supporters carnage last week. Does Football have a problem? Yes it most certainly does, Will stopping one team in Scotland singing 2 words in a song cure the social problems of world football? I don't think I need to answer that. The UEFA\FIFA and Governments need to get together and try and sort out the real problems and not tickle the belly of a few organisations who are playing the racial card. Ask them to put a total ban on the sale of Alcohol in the likes of Rome last week then all of a sudden the problems are not so big because then local shops will lose money.

Just like everything money is the cancer in society and Sepp Blatter should know that better than anyone.