My take on the Rangers sectarian issue

[craig 5,195]

Craig, i must apologise as i'm not making myself clear, i want the club to fight before any rule is passed, not after it's passed, but you can obey rules and still fight them IMO

 

No bother Ian - I think we agree !!

 

You can obey the rules and still fight them, absolutely - but what happened in Pamplona was that we disobeyed the rules, simple really.

 

There are ways to get your point across and fight against the rules - but the one way to NOT do it is by disobeying the rules.

[ian1964 10,413]

No bother Ian - I think we agree !!

 

You can obey the rules and still fight them, absolutely - but what happened in Pamplona was that we disobeyed the rules, simple really.

 

There are ways to get your point across and fight against the rules - but the one way to NOT do it is by disobeying the rules.

 

Of course we agree, i'm just having a bit of a rant, for me the biggest issue in Pamplona was the brutal assault on our fans, but the singing is taking the headlines, but also i feel the club aren't doing enough to weed these arseholes out, people pay good money to go to these games so why should they then be asked to police the crowd as well?, when you go into any establishment and cause trouble you're kicked out by the owners or whoever is in charge, not by the other people that are in there

[craig 5,195]

Of course we agree, i'm just having a bit of a rant, for me the biggest issue in Pamplona was the brutal assault on our fans, but the singing is taking the headlines, but also i feel the club aren't doing enough to weed these arseholes out, people pay good money to go to these games so why should they then be asked to police the crowd as well?, when you go into any establishment and cause trouble you're kicked out by the owners or whoever is in charge, not by the other people that are in there

 

Agreed on all fronts.

 

The club need to be more aggressive in pursuit of getting to the REAL issues - yes the singing is an issue but the much bigger issue is the barbaric nature of the Pamplona police inside the ground.

[calscot 0]

We lost a lot of sympathy about the attacks partly because of the singing... If you are misbehaving with sectarian songs people stop seeing you as innocents. The cameras also caught a lot of antagonistic behaviour by some Rangers fans and it didn't look like they were a bunch of angels.

 

No excuse for the police wading in, but if we want to be taken seriously as victims then we can't look like the culprits.

 

If we stop singing the songs and behave like decent human beings then we will get all the sympathy in the world if we are attacked.

 

More reason to give up the songs and weed out the trouble makers.

 

Basically we need to stop giving people a stick to beat us with.

[calscot 0]

Agreed on all fronts.

 

The club need to be more aggressive in pursuit of getting to the REAL issues - yes the singing is an issue but the much bigger issue is the barbaric nature of the Pamplona police inside the ground.

 

Yes, but who will take our side after the behaviour of our fans?

 

We're shooting ourselves in the foot every time. You can't bully and then complain about being bullied.

 

Perhaps the biggest problem is that decent fans think the bigger issue IS the Spanish police - when it's the idiots that are taking away our right to complain and in effect making us look like the violent ones.

 

We can't do too much about the police but we can do something about our own fans and especially our own attitudes and passive acceptance of very poor behaviour.

[CammyF 6,781]

So the Spanish Police attacked us due to songs - how did they know that the songs we were singing were 'offensive'?

 

What about the Rangers fans attacked by the police OUTSIDE the ground prior to kick off? Were the police justified in attacking them as the had reason to believe that some of them, at a later date may sing sectarian songs?

 

There is no defence for the police attacks

 

Cammy F

[ian1964 10,413]

Yes, but who will take our side after the behaviour of our fans?

 

We're shooting ourselves in the foot every time. You can't bully and then complain about being bullied.

 

Perhaps the biggest problem is that decent fans think the bigger issue IS the Spanish police - when it's the idiots that are taking away our right to complain and in effect making us look like the violent ones.

 

We can't do too much about the police but we can do something about our own fans and especially our own attitudes and passive acceptance of very poor behaviour.

 

Sorry, i can't agree with that, wouldn't it be a perfect world if no-one misbehaved, sing a song and you'll get beaten up , once again we all know these idiots should not be singing these songs but ffs there's no excuse for the way these so-called police waded into our fans

[craig 5,195]

Cammy, there is NOT ONE place in Calscot's post where he said the fans were attacked because of the songs. That is putting words in his mouth.

 

He said that you lose much sympathy for the attacks when you sing those songs, very different to suggesting the songs caused the attacks.

[calscot 0]

Craig is right, I'm not saying that the police attacked us for the songs but most people on the street subscribe to the incredibly flawed thinking of "There is no smoke without fire." So the fact that the fans were seen singing bigoted songs and some were obviously antagonising the police, people then come to the conclusion that Rangers fans were on the rampage and deserved all they got.

 

The Rangers fans there say they were victims of an unprovoked attack, the rest of the nation thinks, "yeah, right".

 

The thing is most of us think that way, if a foul mouthed and arrogant ned who likes to intimidate people then gets clobbered by a policeman, he has no sympathy from me.

 

Basically the Rangers fans in Pamplona came across on the telly and youtube as a large bunch neds - and I would say that is the problem we need to fix if we want to have the world on our side.

 

We have a public image problem and no-one will back us up until we change that.

[Wija 0]

So the Spanish Police attacked us due to songs - how did they know that the songs we were singing were 'offensive'?

 

What about the Rangers fans attacked by the police OUTSIDE the ground prior to kick off? Were the police justified in attacking them as the had reason to believe that some of them, at a later date may sing sectarian songs?

 

There is no defence for the police attacks

 

Cammy F

 

Cammy,

 

There is no defence for the attacks on the fans, but looking at the video evidence even you have to say that there were one or two there who were clearly "up to mischief" and wanted to antagonise the Police.

 

The singing is a side issue that the mhedia are jumping on thick and fast.

 

The NEDTASTIC behaviour is an issue that needs to be dealt with aswell and is the main cause of the trouble we are having now, and as I said the singing is the bandwagon that the Mhedia can use to ensure we get royally fooked..