Rangers v St Johnstone friendly - 3pm today

[ascender 352]

Just looking at everything that's happened on the park since he came in is more than enough to worry about. Add in the rumours aboiut the player unhappiness and its not great is it?

 

I'd be much less concerned at how we're playing if he had just come in during the close season, but having had those games at the tail end of last season, I'd really expect to see a more cohesive game plan forming and certainly more from some of the players. I really hope he turns things around as I expect every other fan does, but you can't blame a lot of the negative posts we're seeing across forums - I'm really starting to dread the league games and a bit of me thinks this is all going to end up as a total train-wreck, as predicted by many.

 

I agree with Gribz - if this all comes to a head and the board get rid of him, we may lose a few of the foreign players he has signed, but I can't see Alves leaving and our squad is definitely stronger with Dorrans and Jack in it.

[Oleg_Mcnoleg 50]

Miller shook his head every time Herrera made a mistake.

 

He must have repetitive strain injury in his neck after two seasons alongside Waghorn then.

[Rousseau 9,486]

For reasons I can't quite understand it seems 'we're' dividing into camps and these camps are becoming ever more intransigent. As someone who has firmly nailed his colours to the 'Doubting Pedro' camp let me be clear on a few things. I don't want him to fail, nothing would make me happier than for PC to prove to be a managerial visionary who transforms our club, indeed I'd accept him being simply really lucky and fluking the league next season. I'd happily eat lashings of humble pie and greedily accept Uiliem's accusations of effete, lady-boy, panic merchant status, Berliner's lectures on loyalty and Gaffer's sermon on the mount regarding my lack of faith, indeed I'd make them my posting signature for the coming season if they prove to be true. Be clear, I want Rangers to win, I want success, I want our new signings to settle and perform to a high standard. But also be clear, I, and I imagine all my fellow travellers in the Doubting Pedro camp, didn't welcome a 1-0 defeat to a Perthshire 11 yesterday and I don't want to see us get turned over by Gene Hackman's boys on Saturday. I'd love to see a glimmer of promise, something that helps me restore my faith. My growing scepticism of our current manager is not based on anything but his record as a manager both with us and before us. But I want to be wrong.

 

At the same time, the 'Believe in Pedro' camp need to open their eyes to glaring evidence staring them in the face. Don't dismiss every defeat as unavoidable as we don't have the players yet, (Walter Smith took over from PLG and transformed the side in a matter of weeks by signing two ageing centre halves and an injury prone Kevin Thomson), don't dismiss every rumour of player unrest as 'last year's duds having a moan', experienced players know the difference between good and bad tactics and good and bad management and it's wilful self-harm to dismiss these stories as irrelevant.

 

When the team takes to the pitch they get my full support. I assume they get Tannochside Bear's too, and Gribz and Craig's. My scepticism of Pedro is not the cause of our defeat to Progres or our loss to St Johnstone, rather these defeats, and others, are the reason for my scepticism. Don't make this a simple 'for or against' thing, it's not as black and white as that. At some point very soon PC needs to prove he can create a Rangers side that can compete with Celtic and Aberdeen and Hearts and beat the rest regularly, that's the minimum that's required. Let me know when you see that please.

 

Your plea to 'PC believers' works both ways.

 

There is certainly a division, with both sides at either end of the spectrum; the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

Edited July 19, 2017 by Rousseau

[Frankie 8,182]

I have as many doubts about the manager as the next fan. But how many managerial 'frauds' are we to go through before the players are described in the same way?

 

In any event, this was a bounce game, played at walking pace and with rafts of changes for both teams so I'm not putting too much analysis into it. Saturday at Ibrox against a much better side and in front of demanding fans will mean a higher tempo and more work. The result of that game will be of more interest to me.

[cooponthewing 1,139]

I was really enthusiastic about the appointment of PC. Now I'm overcome with self doubt over my instincts which now tell me this is a complete disaster?

Saturday will be a huge barometer pointing to the future? I am in th camp of giving PC until the first Tim game.

[Gaffer 1,665]

For reasons I can't quite understand it seems 'we're' dividing into camps and these camps are becoming ever more intransigent. As someone who has firmly nailed his colours to the 'Doubting Pedro' camp let me be clear on a few things. I don't want him to fail, nothing would make me happier than for PC to prove to be a managerial visionary who transforms our club, indeed I'd accept him being simply really lucky and fluking the league next season. I'd happily eat lashings of humble pie and greedily accept Uiliem's accusations of effete, lady-boy, panic merchant status, Berliner's lectures on loyalty and Gaffer's sermon on the mount regarding my lack of faith, indeed I'd make them my posting signature for the coming season if they prove to be true. Be clear, I want Rangers to win, I want success, I want our new signings to settle and perform to a high standard. But also be clear, I, and I imagine all my fellow travellers in the Doubting Pedro camp, didn't welcome a 1-0 defeat to a Perthshire 11 yesterday and I don't want to see us get turned over by Gene Hackman's boys on Saturday. I'd love to see a glimmer of promise, something that helps me restore my faith. My growing scepticism of our current manager is not based on anything but his record as a manager both with us and before us. But I want to be wrong.

 

At the same time, the 'Believe in Pedro' camp need to open their eyes to glaring evidence staring them in the face. Don't dismiss every defeat as unavoidable as we don't have the players yet, (Walter Smith took over from PLG and transformed the side in a matter of weeks by signing two ageing centre halves and an injury prone Kevin Thomson), don't dismiss every rumour of player unrest as 'last year's duds having a moan', experienced players know the difference between good and bad tactics and good and bad management and it's wilful self-harm to dismiss these stories as irrelevant.

 

When the team takes to the pitch they get my full support. I assume they get Tannochside Bear's too, and Gribz and Craig's. My scepticism of Pedro is not the cause of our defeat to Progres or our loss to St Johnstone, rather these defeats, and others, are the reason for my scepticism. Don't make this a simple 'for or against' thing, it's not as black and white as that. At some point very soon PC needs to prove he can create a Rangers side that can compete with Celtic and Aberdeen and Hearts and beat the rest regularly, that's the minimum that's required. Let me know when you see that please.

 

Firstly, I enjoyed reading this. It's always useful when we have disagreement to remind each other that we are all aiming for the same thing. All we argue about is how best to get there.

 

I did want to correct one thing though. I would say I'm more optimistic than many on here, but I do not have a blind faith in Pedro, despite how my 'sermons' may be perceived. There are a number of decisions and results that concern me. I don't see anything in Miller to suggest that he is effective for us, although I have praised his work rate on by occasions. I don't know why we continue to play him. Equally, it concerns me that we don't have enough people desperate to get into the box for cutbacks and crosses. The lack of diverse movement in the final 15 yards of the pitch frustrates me, and it's something the manager needs to address. If PC can address these points for me, I'd feel even more optimistic, but the jury will continue to be out until results start to form a pattern.

 

However, I think the difference between us is that I want to give him more time. Where we may also disagree is that I saw enough in these last 4 games to suggest that we could have an exciting and successful season. The defence looks solid, albeit we have had some silly individual mistakes which I'm hoping can be sorted out, especially with the arrival of PC's marquee signing. I think the midfield looks really solid and we now have some playmakers who are able to supply the forwards. I watched the saints game and I thought we looked comfortable and dare I say it very dangerous on the ball. We don't however have that cutting edge. I think the team is more fluid and direct when Dalcio is playing. I also think Candeias looks like he'll be a quality player too. What I'm not yet convinced about is the front man. From what I've seen, we have some potential but not the key player yet. So, for me it's more about that position rather than the manager, for now.

 

If however he fails to turn an existing player into the player we need, or if he fails to change his clear preferred system to compensate, we will struggle this season. It's down to PC now to fix it and if he doesn't, the board will do what's necessary. They are all fans too remember.

 

Suggesting there is a "believe in Pedro" camp suggests that we have blind faith. What I'm trying to explain is that it isn't the case. We have a degree of optimism based on various things we see, just as you see something else. But equally, I'd ask you to look at some of the positives he has brought to the club. Then all we will ever argue/debate about is how long does he get to prove himself one way or another. Perhaps that makes for a boring forum though. ;-)

[Uilleam 5,490]

I don't think that there are actually two camps.

 

There is an anti-Pedro school , many, or most, of whom have been against him since his name first figured on a short leet, and want McInnes, or Alex Rae, or Barry Ferguson, or Big Eck.....or whomever.

 

Others, myself included, tend to think that dragging the team upwards is nothing short of an Heraclean (Herculean) labour, and one that will not be accomplished in a trice. Whether PC is the man to succeed in this task remains to be seen.

However, and before people jump on the results bandwagon, it seems to me that we have to go back to the Championship winning side under Warburton to fully grasp the extent of the problem. Once the title (the Second Division, in truth) was secured performances plummeted, culminating in an inept performance and loss to the Leith fhilth in the Cup Final. Last season the team limped rather tamely, for the most part, into third place. Neither results, nor performances, were acceptable, although, on reflection, it seems obvious that competing properly in the SPL was, and remains, a step too far for a significant no. of players.

Fortunately the process of redding out is underway.

 

Now we seem to have the unedifying view of Warburton's and McCoist's players complaining about fitness training, coaching and tactical instruction. Well, forgive me, if I do not jump to their defence, but, as I have indicated, these are the guys who made a bollox of the Cup Final, and struggled in the SPL last season, so I don't think that they are due much slack, in the scheme of things.

 

Yes, I know that results and performances have been dreadful, and the Luxembourg result and performances were, incontrovertibly, worse that Berwick, Gornik Zabrze, Chesterfield, Levski Sofia, and the Romanian team whose very name eludes me. I am not convinced, however, that in these matches, the Rangers teams started from such a low point, and in such a state of flux.

 

Consider, too, the cost implications of sacking the coaching team, and the difficulties in quickly finding replacements who will easily fit in and manage what is a pretty disparate bunch of players, acquired for specific reasons, and with specific aims in mind, Caixinha being, if nothing else, an intelligent, educated coach.

 

Furthermore, all this squabbling and bad mouthing the management is providing even more amusement for the fhilth and its fellow travellers, than the travails on the field of play.

 

I do not know how long he has, nor how long he should be given, but some of the almost hysterical utterances here, and elsewhere are unhelpful.

 

I anticipate that the DoF and CEO will have performance and results under constant review, so I should think that the half term, January, report will be the most critical.

Edited July 19, 2017 by Uilleam

[der Berliner 3,283]

On a sidenote, I don't debate loyalty et al. I'm being utterly pragmatic when I watch this summer and all the furore and still say, why the fuzz?!? And before some will be foaming at the mouth re Progres again ... yes, it was f*cking terrible to lose that one, and will blemish our European record and whatnot.

 

Yet, PC's own team - all his 9 new players plus Rossiter and Kranjcar and some left-overs - has started training and playing in earnest in these last few weeks. I've been around for a "few" years but never have I experienced the negativity and pessimism at anything that comes out of the club these last few weeks. Every manager we had got at least 6 months in the job ... playing his players, his style, his tactics. And we simply have not seen that from PC at all ... since last season was him playing people who have been sub-standard for months before, an injury ravaged side ... and all against a decent Dons side and a by their own standards over-performing Yahoo team. But there was next to no quarter given ... nor is there now. With the press bandwaggon of Doom in full swing too, no wonder that the current atmosphere is toxic.

 

We all have our opinions, not least about tactics and players, and for the most part, we are wrong, or else the managers would would be out the door faster than a Gatling gun can revolve. For the time being, I'll content to wait and see for myself how PC's squad will shape up and play. And I very much expect that any slip will by blown out of any proportion still.

[Dave M609 100]

I want Pedro to do well, I hope he can succeed. But I'm not blind to the problems we are experiencing at the moment, the European results were a disaster, even without our top signings we should be putting 5 or 6 past teams like that with players we had at our disposal, this will be a black mark on Pedro's time with us along with the Old Firm result at Ibrox, I think sacking him before the season has started would be completely stupid, we have given him so much money to build a team, it would be daft to just get rid of him, his job should be under review in January, who would be the replacement, please no Mcleish, McInnes or Wright.

If there is anyone within the dressing room causing disruption and undermining the manager then get them to fuck as soon as possible, I don't care who they are, none of them are that good that they would be missed if we got shot of them, particularly if its anyone from the Warburton era.

I can ignore the pre-season results, its all about fitness and getting familiar with each other and building up to the first game of the season, yesterday was Pena and Dorrans first game as far as im aware. By all, accounts it sounds like we were all over them and changes disrupted the team, but that's to be expected, a bit of perspective is needed though, it was a bounce game, not even a friendly, it was a training exercise to get the guys fit, It will be interesting to see what happens on Saturday in front of a home crowd, the team have something to prove.

The one thing that's worrying me is the lack of goals, but again that may come in time as they get more familiar with each other and know where one another is going to be, the midfielders need to chip in as well by going beyond the forwards, but again that may come in time once everyone is familiar with everyone, we have had a massive revamp in terms of personnel, I'm willing to give him and the team time but they need to start to show improvement with every game.

Going forward I think a good show against Marseille and Sheffield Wednesday are a must, show the fans that the players are starting to be a cohesive unit

Goals are a must, who know maybe after Morelos and Herrera get their first one they might start banging them in, you know what its like with strikers, the longer they go without a goal the more of a weight on their shoulders it becomes.

Anyone causing disruption in the dressing room should be out the door, even if its Miller Wallace or Kranjcar, I'm not sure how true all these rumors are but that can't be tolerated.

I think the addition of Walker and Naismith would be welcome, would make us more dynamic going forward and they are two very good players, I know everyone says Naismith isn't the same player, but the league isn't the same either, the standard has dropped dramatically since he left.

After the money we have spent and having a full team of Pedro's players at the start of the season I would expect 15 to 18 points from the first 6 games, we can't be beaten at home either, Ibrox needs to become a fortress again I want us to give hibs and hearts a absolute skelping at home in the second and third games, we need to show that we are serious about challenging for the league.

Pedro's job should be under review in January, like any employee from any walk of life he should have a mid term review to see if he has met his objectives, review where we are in the league and as a team, if his position is untenable by then, he will have to go, but he needs a fair crack at the whip with his team.

[Darthter 542]

I find it amusing that KM has been "shaking his head" at the performances of others.

While I accept that he has chipped in with a few important goals, ultimately his work rate to "goods produced" rate is terrible.

 

Miller will run around all game...110% work rate, but we need goals, and on a REGULAR basis. We need strikers who will regularly hit 20 goals per season. I think it's time to drop KM & persist more with Herrera & Morelos.